Thread: The loss of common courtesy?

Here's some classic cases going right now that shows underlying problems of lack of courtesy:

1) the little girl in new york who got shot because 2 'gangstas' got into a staring match and both had guns and decided to win the 'gangsta' way. This suggests that access to guns doesn't guarantee a more polite society but we have to give way as well to the suggestion that the two 'gangstas' are a product of a society that glamorizes outlaws and outlaws guns (much the same way most states are doing in the u.s.)

2) How about the pyrotechnics technician that was charged with and convicted of over 100 counts of negligent homicide. I realise we need accountability but I think this is really excessive. It was an accident, due in part to the club owners failures. Some of the relatives of the victims are wanting the technician's MOTHER to suffer "as we have suffered". Why? What's that poor woman got to do with what happened? It's not her fault! We've gone from a society bent on justice to a society bent on vengance. Virtually everyone wants someone else to "suffer" and "pay" even when that person had nothing to do with whatever the issue at hand may be. We (the United States) are obsessed with causing pain to others and with so many laws preventing the cowards of society from hurting others the way they want the cowards use the laws and create more laws so that the judicial system has now become a weapon of 'legalized' crime. Our society criminalizes everyone and everyone wants vengance so the cycle continues.

Our government has gotten around the double jeapardy laws by trumping multiple charges for a single act, and most importantly by creating state versus federal charges. A cop kills a suspect, people rant, the state finds him not guilty, the federal government steps in on 'federal charges' for the exact same thing. A man points a gun at someone, it goes off (accidentally OR intentionally), he legally owned the gun but he's charged with 'felony with a firearm' 'illegal possesion of a fire arm' 'murder'/'attempted murder' 'assault with a deadly weapon' and God knows how many other charges. The illegal possesion is allowed because he possesed the gun while commiting a felony which is now illegal in most states whether you own the gun or not. MANY prosecuters use this method to convict law abiding citizens who are only defending themselves AND to rack up more convictions that will look good on their record when they go up for re-election.

With all this going on we wonder at lack of courtesy. It's not only the common person, it's the system as well. Our nation has a disease and no one wants a cure.

That's what I think is sad.

FUD,

I agree with you and the things you bring up are scary to contemplate. There are so many laws that just about anyone could probably be put in jail for something. It's also indicative of a lack of personal responsibility. When something goes wrong, it's never that person's fault, it's someone else's fault and hence they should pay. It's quite scary.

Ed

FUD, you just impressed me with your arguments and the way you presented them. You're absolutely correct. I always wondered about the need for the multiple charges for the same crime, but I'm not well-versed in the legal system. Our legal system is similar, but less effective. You can kill a person, get sentenced to 9 years, come out of jail after 6 and there you meet a 17yrold kid who made a dirty movie with his gf, burned a copy for her and got nailed for posession and distribution of child porn, sentenced as an adult and got a longer sentence on those 2 charges!
Then we have Section 1 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (our constitution)... The worst perversion of constitutional justice ever made!

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

This means that all other parts of the constitution can be overridden by this one! It's used to justify an unfair traffic court system, dubious investigative practices and who knows what else. I'm surprised we never had an organized move to have it stricken from the Charter.

P.S. I apologize for the digression, but the discussion turned legal and I had a MAJOR beef with our legal system.

Once there is discussion about evil guns, I can't play no more on this thread. I just know I'll say something I shouldn't.

10% of your life is what happens to you, and 90% is how you choose to respond to it.

Originally Posted by urleebird

Once there is discussion about evil guns, I can't play no more on this thread. I just know I'll say something I shouldn't.

Let ME say this much, then:

In my experience handling firearms I've found people to have one of three emotional responses.

1. Empowerment.
2. Fear.
3. Respect and a sense of Responsibility.

Only one of these is productive and it generally requires proper instruction in the use of such items. The other two lead people to think all kinds of irrational or irrelevant things with regard to guns in society.

X

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

You're absolutely correct. I always wondered about the need for the multiple charges for the same crime,

Thank you for the compliment.

The 'multiple charges' stems from several camps.

1) When certain laws increasing jail times for certain crimes were struck down by state/federal appeals new laws were instituted to allow stiffer penalties because when multiple laws are broken it's not cruel and unusual punishment to sentence accordingly for each.

2) When the laws in practice don't cover unusual and heinous crimes properly multiple laws provide a means of giving stiffer penalties for those that are non-standard.

etc. etc. etc.

The trouble is the zealots who hop on the band wagon and abuse the practice.


. . . But, back to the topic thread. I went to the store today because I'm the least sick of the family. As I was pulling out of my parking spot a dude 2 spots over started out right after me and turned into me. Fortunately I saw him out of the corner of my eye and floored it. He barely missed me. Since no contact was made I chose not to stop so I wouldn't say anything harsh to him out of "flustration". He followed me from that store to my next stop, parked across from me, got out and started yelling at me for him almost hitting me.

And this isn't in California.

FUD,

I'm not at all surprised. Out here if you look at somebody funny, you might just get shot.

Ed

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

I agree with you in part. As a formal martial artist, I noticed that people who train in dojos/dojangs are extremely ritualistic and polite with each other. However.......
The problem with a gun society is that there are always deviants and with access to guns they have a greater potential to do damage. Even if the government develops the perfect screening process for gun licensing (yeah, right ) guns can always get stolen and then you have some crazy yahoo or gangbanger shooting at people b/c they looked at him cockeyed or just b/c they're insane.
I enjoyed every time I fired a gun, threw a knife or released an arrow. It's a test of my eye-sight, nerves and concentration. However, I believe that the world would be a better place if guns didn't exist, even in the governments' hands.

As for yelling at kids or beating them up (replying to other posts), that's the worst thing you can do with a kid. I still haven't forgiven my dad or his stepfather for all the beatings I received from them and I'm 26. That way you teach children that using violence is ok and that it's normal to lose control over your emotions. Took me a while to learn different ways of resolving conflicts.Kids can be admonished with a disaproving done of your voice and disciplined without causing them physical pain. That way you're less likely to see them shouting at people on the streets and picking fights.

You dont want to get into the gun argument with me, its just not worth it, especially since you cant uninvent the wheel. But I understand your concerns.

Gentlemen,

It would really a shame if we would allow
the actions of one rude woman to damage
this forum and cause hard feelings among
its members.

Those of us who support the right to keep
and bear arms are not going to change our
views on the ownership of guns. And those
of you who oppose this right are not going
to change your views.

That being said, I vote that we allow this thread
to simply fade away and that we get back on
the topic of straight razor shaving.

I certainly hope that as a new member that I
haven't overstepped my position as a memer.
But I felt compelled to say something. Because
the way this thread is going, no good is going
to come of it.

Regards,

Terry