Thread: Grumpy Old Men

Long scathing response deleted. If you're so fond of communism and speaking spanish, move to Cuba. Charter flights are now available from both Tampa and Miami. According to Michael Moore it's an absolute utopia where everyone, regardless of vocation, education or work ethic has the same thing, about $3 a month. Funny, I don't see him or Hugo Chavez's boyfriend Sean Penn heading for any airports. For the record, although it's a bit muddy, I can speak Spanish (however I do better in Tagalog). I like captialism, I like personal responsibility, I don't mind the people that work hard being successful. I don't mind the fact that my bosses make a lot more money than I do. If I do something stupid and something bad happens, I won't blame predatory lending, bigotry, racism, etc. I understand that the more the government provides, the deeper it can dig into your pockets or make personal decisions for you. I don't want George Soros or Barrack Obama telling me what to eat drink, smoke, think or do. If you can watch the actions of our elected officials and honestly say you would be better off with those people managing your affairs I have absolutely no response for such miopic ridiculum. The national identity I spoke of had nothing to do with Jim Crow Laws or barefoot and pregnant. I'm talking about integrity, self reliance and the independent spirit that made this country great for 200+ years.

The only reason people think things were better in the olden days is that they only remember the good stuff.
In reality, what you have now is what you had then. People are people now, just as they were people then.

If you're talking about a time period of 200+ years, integrity is not one of the words that come to mind. The dwindling population of natives would probably not agree with your assessment. The Mexicans either. The US practically stole Texas from Mexico.

Was that integrity or self reliance?

My grandmother lived to be 95. She lived through 2 world wars. She told me in no uncertain terms that there was nothing particularly good about the old days. There were indeed some things better, but also many things worse. You cannot pick and choose.

Originally Posted by 1OldGI

self reliance and the independent spirit that made this country great for 200+ years.

Yeah, it all went downhill in 1776. It should've been pretty obvious when they changed the name from "Independent Men of America" to "United States of America". I can't believe nobody thought of the obvious solution to just send all those people who wished to be one community over to Cuba where they could build all the communism they wanted....

If you honestly believe that slavery and it's repercussions, the oppression of women, and the near annihilation of the native peoples of North America can somehow be cut out, can be divided off from the rest of what made the USA, you are the one who's visually impaired. Remember, the people who wrote "We hold the truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal" were men who owned other human beings as chattel. They apparently forgot the "Except brown people, and women." footnote.

Integrity, indeed...

Mind you, other countries are equally bad at this. Every country has a couple of genocides and embarrassing stories in the closet. My own little country can measure up to the bad big boys when it comes to atrocity. Hitler had nothing on our Butcher King Leopold 2.

Most people nowadays don't know this because it is not really taught in schools though. A couple of years ago they even minted a special commemorative coin to celebrate his reign. For those who fail to see the problem: this would be similar to minting a commemorative coin with Hitlers face to celebrate his reign. Only Hitler killed a lot less people.

So I am definitely not playing holier than thou.
My point was that people always think everything was better in the old days, and people were more noble, upstanding, etc. Generally speaking, this is not the case. If anything, these days most people think slavery and genocide is bad. That puts us way ahead of the global population of 200 years ago in terms of being noble.

Originally Posted by JimR

If you honestly believe that slavery and it's repercussions, the oppression of women, and the near annihilation of the native peoples of North America can somehow be cut out, can be divided off from the rest of what made the USA, you are the one who's visually impaired. Remember, the people who wrote "We hold the truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal" were men who owned other human beings as chattel. They apparently forgot the "Except brown people, and women." footnote.

Integrity, indeed...

Hey, at least we let the Irish stay. Nobody else would take them.

Granted, Japan hasn't ever really been the bastion of equality that the U.S. isn't.
I'm pretty sure every country has a number of skeletons in its closet that are glossed over and forgotten by the majority.

JimR I agree with Bruno. Every country has black spots on their history. You mentioned Slavery. US was not the only one doing that. Its was common practice in many countries. Im not saying it was right by any means. When i think of THE GOOD OL DAYS. I think back when people can work for what they have. It now has become the world of entiltement. You have it I want it and no im not working for it. Right now the US has 50% of the Population paying taxes and the other 50% living of them. It will not continue to support that. Something will give.

Slavery hasn't gone anywhere! Politicians have hordes of slaves working hard, to line their own deep pockets. Just that instead of having to worry about feeding us they let us keep some money to go out and buy whatsoever we can afford, to feed ourselves and our families.


Mick

Originally Posted by bharner

Hey, at least we let the Irish stay. Nobody else would take them.

Eventually, yes.

Granted, Japan hasn't ever really been the bastion of equality that the U.S. isn't.
I'm pretty sure every country has a number of skeletons in its closet that are glossed over and forgotten by the majority.

I never mentioned Japan, though I could tell you some things about that. At the very least, Japan doesn't force people to choose between paying rent or paying for a lifesaving operation for their kids.

Originally Posted by JimR

Eventually, yes.



I never mentioned Japan, though I could tell you some things about that. At the very least, Japan doesn't force people to choose between paying rent or paying for a lifesaving operation for their kids.

Hey, better late than never on the Irish .

I didn't say the US was a bastion of equality because we all know it isn't. We asked for freedom and got it. Part of that freedom has been the willingness to step away from government aid to the point where it is detrimental. It's only now that the economy is in the tank that a lot of people are experiencing first hand how poorly the system works.

And I do like that Japan has fixed costs for certain (maybe all, can't remember 100%, that NPR broadcast was last winter) health care procedures. As someone with a chronic illness I get to experience the "joys" of healthcare system over here on a regular basis. One minor point, though: in the US if you are a under 18 it is quite easy to get health insurance through the government. If you are in a situation where you have to choose between paying rent and paying for an operation for your child there is a good chance you will qualify for medicare or medicaid which will in turn cover it. A lot of people don't realize this as medicaid is generally limited to families at or under 100% of the poverty level but exceptions are regularly made for children if there is a need. A lot of people are just too proud to ask for.

I've not been in that situation of choosing paying my bills over an operation for my kids but just after college I was in the situation where I was making just over minimum wage with insurance that didn't cover prescriptions. I had a $600 monthly medication bill so it rarely got purchased because that was over half of my monthly income and I had rent, food, gas, car insurance, and student loan payments to make. It's a sucky place to be. Hopefully one day the government here will get their heads out of their butts and start listening to the people so that things like that don't continue to happen.