Thread: Trayvon Martin (pardon me if this subject is verboten.)

Glen, thats exactally why my guns (other than sporting arms) do not go outside my home.
The odds of you getting killed by say an outside robbery attempt are slim and none,even the baddest of the bad do not shoot people over a watch or a wallet if the victim is passive and quickly complies.
Packing heat (legally) changes a persons mindset,all of a sudden they become omnipotant,I do not care how intelligent you are or how well you have been trained,guns can be like alcohol,can turn a 90 lb wimp into hulk hogan.
You state that your CCW is like a life insurance policy,well,you confront another armed person, worst case scenario,one of you may die on the spot,and it may be you. so much for the policy.
CCW advocates, have made claims that if a CCW person was on campus at Columbine Or V tech,the carnage could have been averted,99% of that is bullshit,the first thing any person under fire will do is look for a place to hide and wish they had a change of pants.
Ya know, if zimmerman had no gun.legal carry or not,the kid would most likly still be alive,just a good ole street fight,end of story.
As a lifetime NRA member, and a firm believer in the 2nd,The day, if it ever comes when everyone is packing heat scares the shit out of me,maybe need to get into a major training regimin so I can run 1600 FPS and get away from the bad guys)

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Packing heat (legally) changes a persons mindset,all of a sudden they become omnipotant,I do not care how intelligent you are or how well you have been trained,guns can be like alcohol,can turn a 90 lb wimp into hulk hogan.

I sat in on a CCW class last summer and one of the first things the teacher said was that the second you find yourself being comfortable in a situation when you have your gun that you wouldn't be comfortable in without it, you need to quit carrying.

Originally Posted by Theseus

I sat in on a CCW class last summer and one of the first things the teacher said was that the second you find yourself being comfortable in a situation when you have your gun that you wouldn't be comfortable in without it, you need to quit carrying.

That is so true.you have the oppurtunity to walk away most of the time,99% of the time,some will argue what about the 1% an unknown for sure,ya know, I am 64 yrs old, I wgt 198 lbs,am 6ft1,am quick as a snake and strong like a bull (as the wife says,and twice as smart face off with me in my driveway with your holsterd Glock,give me a two by four in hand.and you will be DOA before you get that sucker pulled.Wood products rule

In certain respects carrying is like a country having a nuclear weapon. You have it and it is there if you really need it and it may very well save your life but the consequences of using it may be much more than you bargained for especially if you made a poor decision and depending on the laws where you use it.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I learned a very simple rule long ago, if you are going to carry a weapon as a civilian/citizen, "It is a life insurance policy" nothing more nothing less, you only pull the weapon to protect your life or that of another... If you pull the weapon, then intend to kill, and know that you will have to deal with the fallout...

You will probably get charged, and even if found innocent, you will probably lose in civil court, very very few shooters "get away with it" so to speak, especially if you are not inside your own home...

The right or wrong of the shooting has very little to do with the outcome, this case is a prime example Zimmerman cannot win, he will have his entire life destroyed regardless of if he was justified with the shooting...
When he put on a gun he made a choice, as do I, and every other person that carries, and only he knows if the was justified in using his weapon, no Judge or Jury will ever know the truth... Nor will we

That stupid old saying "I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6" well George made his choice...

This may be true where you live, it is not true here. The violent crime rate has been dropping steadily since CCW was made law.

Maybe passive walking away works where you are. It does not work here. Just yesterday a store clerk was robbed. The last thing the robber did was douse the clerk with lighter fluid and set her on fire.

She wasn't armed. She didn't fight back. She is a 76 year old grandmother. She is now in critical condition with burns over 40% of her body. She was still on fire as the police drove up. With her description they caught the man breaking into a house. The cash register wasn't enough for him.

You want to let someone like this decide whether you live or die? I would rather go down fighting.

There are wolves out there. I refuse to be a sheep. Every time someone guns down a robber, it makes the rest think about it.

If Travon attacked Zimmerman he deserved what he got.

"Even now we’re standing there dying, daring to do nothing decisive, because we’ve declared ourselves to be better than our terrorist enemies — more moral, more civilized." Paul Harvey

Originally Posted by Crotalus

This may be true where you live, it is not true here. The violent crime rate has been dropping steadily since CCW was made law.

Maybe passive walking away works where you are. It does not work here. Just yesterday a store clerk was robbed. The last thing the robber did was douse the clerk with lighter fluid and set her on fire.

She wasn't armed. She didn't fight back. She is a 76 year old grandmother. She is now in critical condition with burns over 40% of her body. She was still on fire as the police drove up. With her description they caught the man breaking into a house. The cash register wasn't enough for him.

You want to let someone like this decide whether you live or die? I would rather go down fighting.

There are wolves out there. I refuse to be a sheep. Every time someone guns down a robber, it makes the rest think about it.

If Travon attacked Zimmerman he deserved what he got.

"Even now we’re standing there dying, daring to do nothing decisive, because we’ve declared ourselves to be better than our terrorist enemies — more moral, more civilized." Paul Harvey

I do believe you grossly mis-interpreted my post it is rather easy to do when we are only communicating using a single medium

I never said don't protect yourself, I said be prepared to deal with the fallout..

The same as when I teach women "Steet Defense Classes" (BTW calling them Rape Defense is not PC any longer)
They have to make a decision whether to submit, or fight, all I do is give them skills to try... No one else can tell them in that instant what to do, it is their sole decision, same as GZ had a decision to make when he pulled his weapon... Only he knows if it was right

[QUOTE=Crotalus




If Travon attacked Zimmerman he deserved what he got.
Nobody deserves to die over such a stupid altercation Crotalus,no way, no how.
take a lead from your namesake,The diamondback will give a warning,than attempt to flee before using deadly force.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Glen, thats exactally why my guns (other than sporting arms) do not go outside my home.
The odds of you getting killed by say an outside robbery attempt are slim and none,even the baddest of the bad do not shoot people over a watch or a wallet if the victim is passive and quickly complies.
Packing heat (legally) changes a persons mindset,all of a sudden they become omnipotant,I do not care how intelligent you are or how well you have been trained,guns can be like alcohol,can turn a 90 lb wimp into hulk hogan.
You state that your CCW is like a life insurance policy,well,you confront another armed person, worst case scenario,one of you may die on the spot,and it may be you. so much for the policy.
CCW advocates, have made claims that if a CCW person was on campus at Columbine Or V tech,the carnage could have been averted,99% of that is bullshit,the first thing any person under fire will do is look for a place to hide and wish they had a change of pants.
Ya know, if zimmerman had no gun.legal carry or not,the kid would most likly still be alive,just a good ole street fight,end of story.
As a lifetime NRA member, and a firm believer in the 2nd,The day, if it ever comes when everyone is packing heat scares the shit out of me,maybe need to get into a major training regimin so I can run 1600 FPS and get away from the bad guys)

You're statement above, I pretty much agree with; so this reply is not meant to be adversarial. My reply is only from a different set of eyes.
When it comes to my life, my loved ones lives or the life of an innocent person, suddenly coming under attack; I do not play the odds. I try to leave home every day with the winning hand. This includes my training with and without firearms. The odds always look good in crime stats; unless you are one of the stats.

In your own words, “the baddest of the bad do not shoot people over a watch or a wallet if the victim is passive and quickly complies”, this is correct for the most part; because the “baddest of the Bad” are working in crews/groups that hit high risk, profitable targets and pull home invasions on other bad guys. The ones that are shooting us over our wallets, are the desperate/mentally ill ones and Pixel, there are a lot of them around. Most of the armed robberies do not make the news, even some of the ones with death the result. I know this first hand, because I have been on these crime scenes many times. Probably every time I stood there and waited for the body to get removed, I wondered what the deceased could have done differently and lived. We all are told/taught by police, parents and Monday Morning Quarterbacks to hand over the requested items and your odds of living through the incident are in your favor. I really do not believe this increases your chance of surviving. I truly believe based on my life’s experience, that a person has made up his mind to kill you, before he requests your valuables in many cases. One fact is for sure, any person who brings a weapon to rob you, has already considered that he may have to use that weapon on you; and in the fact that he still brought the weapon; this indicates that your life is worthless to him, regardless of how much you pay him.
Yes, some people seek out the CCW to make up for feelings of inadequacy in dealing with physical confrontations. A false sense of security at least; a deadly mistake waiting to happen, at most. It’s possible that Zimmerman fell into this category. Only two really know & one is dead.

My CCW is a life insurance policy, of sorts; a policy for me and innocents. A policy that has a very long, detailed “Stupidity Clause”. You really have to read that clause.

CCW Advocates say many things and I agree with your comments on Columbine & V Tech. It’s just that the Anti-Gun Crowd hits us hard with their BS also. We have to try and take a foot of ground where ever we can find it.

If Zimmerman had not had a gun, the kid ( 17 year old young man. When I was 17, I was already signed by the Marines, better shape than most twice my age.) would be alive, but Zimmerman would probably be dead or damaged goods at best. I believe he does have a family to feed. There is no such thing as a “good ole street fight” anymore. In our time, you & I would have fought unarmed and the winner/better fighter would have known when to stop. The winner would have bragging rights in school and our fathers would have put us all in a room to work out our differences verbally, so the fight did not repeat itself. Now its dog eat dog with death or serious injury waiting on the sidelines. This is not our generation in the streets these days.

Just my thoughts.....

[QUOTE=pixelfixed;969142][QUOTE=Crotalus




If Travon attacked Zimmerman he deserved what he got.
Nobody deserves to die over such a stupid altercation Crotalus,no way, no how.
take a lead from your namesake,The diamondback will give a warning,than attempt to flee before using deadly force.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but if you touch him, you WILL get bitten. This isn't the movies. You don't pull your gun and wave it in his face expecting him to back off. If you pull your gun you must use it immediately if the bad guy is close. "Make my day" is movie crap.

If you attack someone with deadly force, and banging someone's head on concrete qualifies, your life is forfeit. You deserve no mercy as long as you are committing the act. You are attempting to kill someone. You deserve to die.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

CCW Advocates say many things and I agree with your comments on Columbine & V Tech. It’s just that the Anti-Gun Crowd hits us hard with their BS also. We have to try and take a foot of ground where ever we can find it. .

If you notice, a lot of these mass killings are taking place in "gun free" zones. The killers are going where they have the least chance of being confronted by an armed defender.