Thread: Nanny State Strikes Again!

I think the previous post must sum up the experience of privatization of public sector concerns globally. It is not an experience unique to the USA.

Bob

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I spent 30 years as a Special Agent for Immigration so tell me what Illegal Aliens do. But let me tell you. They all claim 10+ dependents for withholding and they file no taxes and get no credits for the most part. yes an exception now and then which certain segments of the media blow out of proportion.

You know what happens in Govt when they privatize? Some company comes in and claims huge savings for the govt based on phony stats which assume the person will work 30 years and then retire. So the Govt fires all the Govt employees who earn decent wages and benefits and the private outfit pays little, has no benefits, charges the Govt way more than what they were paying the employees over the short term meaning 20 years and the fat cat who owns the private outfit and/or investors pocket the money. Think that's not redistribution of wealth? No, it's good business.

My problem with your argument is your definition of a decent wage. Federal employees are making an average of $127,000/year. IMO a ridiculous amount.

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

Originally Posted by Crotalus

My problem with your argument is your definition of a decent wage. Federal employees are making an average of $127,000/year. IMO a ridiculous amount.

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

right, that's because the profit is simply going to the heads of the private companies and their stockholders...so it's better that the CEO/shareholders makes that extra and the workers make less?

i'm surprised you would weigh in with saying what another person is or isn't making is fair...once you start talking about "fair wages" you might find yourself on the dark path to those deplorable liberal lefties

I'm retired a bit now but the "average" Federal Employee is about a Grade 9 and earned a salary of around 35 grand a year and I know it couldn't have gone up more than a few thousand since I retired. Even if you add all the benefits that figure is ridiculous you quote. besides, since when is someones salary based on what others make? Just because someone is a civil servant doesn't mean they are an indentured servant. Image if you worked for a private outfit making say 80 grand a year and your boss approached you one day and said you know others doing the same in the economy as you average only 50 grand so I'm cutting your salary to that and cutting you health benefits by 50% and removing our contribution to your 401K and cutting your vacation to 5 days a year.

Most would think that was absurd but many seem to think it's fits the bill for civil servants. In the private sector salaries are secret and negotiated and in many cases employees are proscribed from even telling another employee how much they make. In the pubic sector it's all an open book.

The article says Federal salaries have increased by 33% since 2000.

What you describe has happened to me every year for the last 5.

The new Wisconsin Governor didn't do any such thing. He just asked the unions to chip in a few percent toward their health and retirement. The state flat couldn't afford to give it all away.

Why do people insist on getting money that just isn't there? They aren't children. Governments have to live within their means just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

besides, since when is someones salary based on what others make?

Even a basic course in macroeconomics will show that labor costs (someone's salary) are just an equilibrium to be calculated, like anything else....
Typical for government interference is to alter the equilibrium points - which has been shown historically to be a detriment in the long run.

Another thing is to say Govt workers make too much is like saying everyone at Merrill Lynch makes too much. maybe the CEO does and maybe the brokers do but do you think the guys in the mailroom do too? it's like a big corporation and some might do better than the outside folks but the Govt hires people to do many many things. people hired as specialists with advanced degrees make less than half of what they do on the outside. Also, just about every supervisor in Govt is under-payed. Some guy running an office with 500 people under him pulling a salary of 135K. What would someone in private industry similar make? Also would a programmer working at Microsoft do as well as one working for some mom and pop outfit?

This overpay issue is just another manufactured issue and is basically sour grapes with folks thinking, hey why should they make more than me.

Now let me tell you a story. I graduated from college back in the 70s and when I started working for the Govt it was like a brand. The attitude was you must not be too bright cause you can't hack it on the outside and salaries were way lower. The only thing Govt workers had was the pension. All my friends who worked on the outside made 50% more than I ever did and had much nicer lifestyles than me. gee I never heard of someone going to their boss and saying lower my salary cause those Govt workers make less then I do. Well maybe now the shoe is on the other foot and everyone is so concerned with what Govt workers make. Most people yell about salary and benefits yet don't have a clue what the salary and benefits are. They only know the garbage they heard on their favorite right wing radio show.

As far as federal benefits go if you think they are so generous someone tell me how cause since the mid 80s when they changed the pension system I don't see it so someone educate me.

Yea, it used to be that you worked for the government for job security and benefits/pension. In return you gave up some income earning ability. Now that pensions and benefits have been mowed done in the private sector along with wages, if you even have a job, government employees still have some left they are now targeted. Take on the weaker first and leave the tough nut to last. It is always easier when most don't have and resent those that still do.

Bob

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Another thing is to say Govt workers make too much is like saying everyone at Merrill Lynch makes too much. maybe the CEO does and maybe the brokers do but do you think the guys in the mailroom do too? it's like a big corporation and some might do better than the outside folks but the Govt hires people to do many many things. people hired as specialists with advanced degrees make less than half of what they do on the outside. Also, just about every supervisor in Govt is under-payed. Some guy running an office with 500 people under him pulling a salary of 135K. What would someone in private industry similar make? Also would a programmer working at Microsoft do as well as one working for some mom and pop outfit?

IMO there is a huge difference in paying someone a large salary based on profits rather than a huge salary based on TAXES.

People are always extravagant when tax money is involved.

Our stupid Mayor decided that we needed a new Hotel. The City of Dallas needs to be in the Hotel business?

He built a $360 Million palace that has an exterior light show and flat screens behind the bathroom mirrors. This the the reason I voted against him for a Senate seat.

Originally Posted by Crotalus

IMO there is a huge difference in paying someone a large salary based on profits rather than a huge salary based on TAXES.

People are always extravagant when tax money is involved.

Our stupid Mayor decided that we needed a new Hotel. The City of Dallas needs to be in the Hotel business?

He built a $360 Million palace that has an exterior light show and flat screens behind the bathroom mirrors. This the the reason I voted against him for a Senate seat.

It's all a matter of perspective.

When you go grocery shopping do you ask the mgr how much he makes and tell him he's over paid. You know you are paying his salary via that cash register up front. yea I know you can go down the block somewhere else so you have choice but similar stores all pay the same and the prices are basically the same. Unless you go to a warehouse type place which most don't have nearby.

So either way you pay but in the private sector you have the illusion of competition and choice.

Like I said before do you think because someone chooses to be a civil servant they become an indentured servant?

Hmm, no one took my challenge to educate me about what is outrageous about fed workers salaries-benefits?