Thread: Where Do We Draw The Line?

Originally Posted by razorjoe

As our type of government is set up it works best for the morale. once you kick out the standard for our consitution, then your government and the people go down hill. This can be traced back to our religous schools in the country, once they became apostate and turned against the Holy Bible (AVKJV1611) that showed up in the pulpits then in the congration then out in the streets then in the voting booth. That is why [B]Both( POLITICAL PARTIES ARE CORUPT!) That is why our country is going to hell they have no morale bearing!There is no spell check available at the library so excuse the spelling erors.

I believe the Romans (upon whose republic ours was at least partially modeled) called that standard of ethics and morality "virtue." Nicolo Machiavelli believed, as well as our founders who by the way studied Machiavelli among others, that "virtue" instilled in the people via education, parenting and culture was a basic necessity for the operation and survival of a republic such as ours. There can be found many examples of the decline of that virtue in our society going all the way back to the founding. I'd say that the decline is exponentially increasing. Do you see any correlation between that decline and the weakening of the U.S. republic? And I am making the assumption that there has been a definite moral decline. But "virtue" goes beyond morals. I believe the Romans included in virtue those characteristics that are often associated with heroism.

Originally Posted by honedright

"virtue" instilled in the people via education, parenting and culture was a basic necessity for the operation and survival of a republic such as ours.

Yes, 'virtue' being essential for the governed, just as the lack of it has been essential for the governors.
I say more religious schooling and less secular is what the world needs!

My favorite example of Roman "virtue" is that of the Roman Consul Cincinnatus who, once the Aequians were defeated, resigned his 6 month dictatorship after only 16 days, his job finished, returning to his farm and plow. If only those career governors and politicians of today could show such restraint instead of sucking off of the public for years while providing comparatively little in return.

Yes, the famous Cincinnatus, they wrote books and sang songs about him, and to this day little boys want to grow up to be just like him.


http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=c...20&layout=html

Originally Posted by gugi

Yes, the famous Cincinnatus, they wrote books and sang songs about him, and to this day little boys want to grow up to be just like him.


Online Library of Liberty - CHAPTER XXV.: of the poverty of cincinnatus, and that of many other roman citizens. - The Historical, Political, and Diplomatic Writings, vol. 2 (The Prince, Discourses on the First Ten Books of Titus Livius, Thoughts of a

I don't know about all of that....but we did name a city after him. And isn't it wonderful that we don't try and keep our citizens in poverty...well unless you consider all of the reckless entitlement/ bailout spending resulting in trillions of dollars of national debt that will likely bury our grandchildren. But I digress...

Let's not allow an ad hominem attack at Cincinnatus to divert our attention away from one thing he did that was virtuous and honorable and to which all elected officials should aspire.

Originally Posted by honedright

And isn't it wonderful that we don't try and keep our citizens in poverty...

Is it? Don't we? I would think may be time to take a real hard look at the real reason behind all that downfall I keep hearing about...

Originally Posted by honedright

But let's not allow an ad hominem attack at Cincinnatus

Ad hominem attack? I thought his name first came on the first pages of 'The Prince' the part with the dedication.

Originally Posted by honedright

to divert our attention away from one thing he did that was virtuous and honorable and to which all elected officials should aspire.

Right on!!!
Better yet, let's all get together and elect the meek and the poor, those who are running for high office for nothing less than the great honor of forfeiting their riches and power, tax shelters, offshore accounts....

Originally Posted by gugi

Is it? Don't we? I would think may be time to take a real hard look at the real reason behind all that downfall I keep hearing about...


Ad hominem attack? I thought his name first came on the first pages of 'The Prince' the part with the dedication.


Right on!!!
Better yet, let's all get together and elect the meek and the poor, those who are running for high office for nothing less than the great honor of forfeiting their riches and power, tax shelters, offshore accounts....

I think you got your works of Machiavelli's mixed up. Cincinnatus is mentioned in "The Discourses" not "The Prince." Either, or, makes little difference to the virtue demonstrated by Cincinnatus.