Thread: Well, he died doing what he liked to do.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Maybe we say that so the rest of the world finds it easy to deal with a death under those circumstances. Maybe then it doesn't seem like such a tragedy.

What do you think?

I think what you said above is correct. It makes it a little easier on us in dealing with someone's death.

In vietnam I had a First Sergeant who was a WWII, Korean War & Vietnam Infantry vet. (A Combat Infantry Badge with 2 Stars) When I had a Pathfinder or Doorgunner mission and we were moving out at 3 or 4 in the morning he would come around to my tent with a hot cup of coffee for me and get me moving by saying " Get up Blum it's a good day to die" and hand me the coffee saying "God's speed son".

To this day I wonder in amazement why I am still alive. I was scared before every mission, most mornings like the one above I would set the coffee on the floor of the tent next to my cot and then step outside the tent with the dry heaves.
After a couple of minutes I would snap out of it, grab my gear and the coffee and head to the flight line without a second
thought. Emotions were just put on hold it pretty much until whatever was coming at you that day was over until the next time.

To me the statement doesn't make sense if you look at it rationally. Take the pilot for example. He or she didn't actually die flying a plane, they died in an out of control, non-flying plane, plummeting to the earth in a death spiral. I doubt that is what they "loved doing". They loved flying, not plummeting - and plummeting was what they were doing when they died.

So I am in the "it makes us feel better" camp, which is basically what living is about, really. Human existence is a one-way on/off switch - once it is off it is off (putting aside spiritual considerations and simply focussing on the biological). So what point is there worrying about death? It happens to us all, we all have to face it at some point. So given it is always there, you ignore it and you give life your undivided attention. Well, that is what I do. I'll worry about death when I am dead. Particularly when something is inevitable, anxiety over it is pointless and a waste of energy.

And so I believe this is why we invent these platitudes. "They died doing what they loved". "They are in a better place now." "God has called them home". These things are perhaps true - I wouldn't know, I am not dead. But the dead certainly don't care about these statements - they are dead. The only thing these platitudes do, and the only reason they exist, is to make those of us left feel better and hopefully not dwell on death. The object of the game, in my book, is to dwell on living.

James.

I took these photos when I was a 2nd year apprentice. The tall thin guy in the green shirt was one of the 3 best connectors I ever saw in 20 years of doing ironwork. I saw him fall 85 feet on September 20th 1972 at about 9:30 AM. He loved connecting but I know he didn't want to die there @ 37 years old.

Interesting discussion. I agree that "He died doing what he loved" is in fact more for the people the deceased left behind than the deceased himself. Death is a place that we're all going to visit eventually and the result will be the same whether we die of a heart attack mounted atop a 20 something hard body or we're hit head on by a drunk driver some night. At the end of the day, the circumstances involved can only matter to those that survive. Statements like the aforementioned or "he was a brave man who died for his country" only serve to paint someone's untimely death in a more palatable or nobel light. If in fact the deceased could ring into the discussion, I suspect in most cases, their preference would be to remain alive and keep doing the things they love.

FWIW, there IS a historical precedent for accidental str8 razor death. It indirectly resulted in what is without question a great American Novel Walden by Henry David Thoreau. Thoreau's brother John, cut himself shaving and later developed lockjaw and died Henry David Thoreau (second paragraph about half way down). Thoreau was very close to his brother and hoped to clear his head by spending some time on Walden pond. The rest, as they say, is literary history.

Is there any such a thing as "a good death?" Or any better way to die than another?

All of us die alone, at least in the last five minutes. After our eyes close there is still 4-6 minutes of oxygen left for the brain and the heart and when that runs out, you can only hope that you're unconscious and don't feel the heart starving for oxygen, cause that's just like a heart attack = pain. It doesn't matter who is holding your hand, you don't feel it any longer. You're alone.

I don't know how to respond to the tales of coming back from the dead with intact memories cause the brain hasn't got oxygen to collect memories. So they might not have been really most sincerely dead.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Is there any such a thing as "a good death?" Or any better way to die than another?

All of us die alone, at least in the last five minutes. After our eyes close there is still 4-6 minutes of oxygen left for the brain and the heart and when that runs out, you can only hope that you're unconscious and don't feel the heart starving for oxygen, cause that's just like a heart attack = pain. It doesn't matter who is holding your hand, you don't feel it any longer. You're alone.

I don't know how to respond to the tales of coming back from the dead with intact memories cause the brain hasn't got oxygen to collect memories. So they might not have been really most sincerely dead.

Good Death, absolutly,when you watch a parent die of terminal cancer after a two year battle,Thats a good death,for my mother and the family,Thats also going to a better place.
When blood flow to the brain stops you are instantly rendered unconscious, you have 4 minutes of Oxygen bound to the hemoglobin to keep the brain alive at Normothermic temps.During that 4 minutes you can feel nothing.

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

When blood flow to the brain stops you are instantly rendered unconscious, you have 4 minutes of Oxygen bound to the hemoglobin to keep the brain alive at Normothermic temps.During that 4 minutes you can feel nothing.

One of my former business agents in the ironworkers , was shot in the heart, assuming he really had one, and died. I have always wondered if he had time..... before the brain shut down..... to think about it. It was supposedly an accident with his 44 magnum no less, but I've never believed it was accidental.

Originally Posted by Mike Blue

Is there any such a thing as "a good death?" Or any better way to die than another?
All of us die alone, at least in the last five minutes. After our eyes close there is still 4-6 minutes of oxygen left for the brain and the heart and when that runs out, you can only hope that you're unconscious and don't feel the heart starving for oxygen, cause that's just like a heart attack = pain. It doesn't matter who is holding your hand, you don't feel it any longer. You're alone.

I don't know how to respond to the tales of coming back from the dead with intact memories cause the brain hasn't got oxygen to collect memories. So they might not have been really most sincerely dead.

Oh, yes there is. I've seen enough death to know there is.
As far as the dying alone part of your post, I think you getting a bit technical.
It's that "last" image or exchange that I consciously experience that I care about; I could give a damn about what happens when my eyes close.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

....As far as the dying alone part of your post, I think you getting a bit technical.
It's that "last" image or exchange that I consciously experience that I care about; I could give a damn about what happens when my eyes close.

Perhaps more philosophical, because I cannot experience what someone else goes through with their last four minutes. The individual may not interact with their environment but it does not mean that they are not aware for the time they have left.

The French, during the age of the guillotine, did experiment with the heads of those recently departed from their bodies. There is a legitimate question as to consciousness when the heart stops delivering blood and how long the brain activity continues.

The "horror" of the possibility that they are not unconscious and feeling pain is more than the average conscious person wants to accommodate, much like the discussion we are having about what the living say of the dead to ease their feelings about death.

I wouldn't ask such a question about good or bad death if I wasn't equally experienced. I am not a fit judge of either state and since people don't return from death there is hardly any proof to be offered. Perhaps my concern is more about how to ready any human being for their own death when the time comes. Then it may be possible to be satisfied with the life one has lived rather than concerned about the manner of death or what comes after.

In the end, we confront that fear alone, no one can go through that for us.

Originally Posted by Hirlau

Oh, yes there is. I've seen enough death to know there is.
As far as the dying alone part of your post, I think you getting a bit technical.
It's that "last" image or exchange that I consciously experience that I care about; I could give a damn about what happens when my eyes close.

Once your heart stops your B.P drops to zero and you loose conscientiousness. Since no one has truly died and come back to talk about it just think about this possibility, time has no meaning and you experience a dream like state that to you lasts for eternity even though in real time it's only a second or two.