Thread: Whats your opinion on automatic weapons?

Originally Posted by Hirlau

At the risk of going on your Black List, Birnando, I have to disagree with most all of your post.
We will never know if a concealed firearm in the crowd would have made a difference. Many who carry concealed in this country have fought/survived worse scenarios than the one that actually happened. Many are current or past veterans, police officers or just everyday citizens who take carrying a firearm seriously, who train with their weapons.

Firearms are a part of our culture and always will be. Disdain from citizens, of countries that over restrict their use, only make us want to hold on to them harder.

You appear to not live in our country by your profile, so it is hard for you to understand our culture with regard to firearms. We are the Wild West, yes we are. The World knows that.

Your comment, " It is time for the US as a nation to grow up, it's not a frontier anymore, the west is already won." Speaks to the core of your problem with America & I feel it exceeds the firearm issue.

I , along with the friends I know do not fear the nights in America, we do not restrict our travel to certain areas of our cities, if we really have a want or need to travel there. What's sad is that most of the worlds sees us in the eyes of a tainted media hype, that has their own agenda. Truly sad, yes it is.

America is a giving country, sometimes America is a taking country. Look at us with fairness, not disdain and weigh her good against her bad; then tell me which side the scales tip.

God, I hope I'm around for the next post..........

No worries mate, no risk of any black list, not at all.
As far as I'm concerned, this is friends discussing our different viewpoints, nothing more.

It is pretty obvious that we will never see eye to eye on this subject, and I'm fine with that too.
Yes, you are correct, as my profile states, I am from Norway, a nation far away from the US in more ways than one.

We are ourselves marking the 1 year anniversary(bad word for this) of the terrorist attacks on Oslo and Utoya.
So, perhaps today it felt even more right to speak up for my views on this...

I usually don't comment on US stuff to much, I have made the realisation long ago that the differences are just too big on issues like this for me to really think it worth it.

The only thing that got to me in your post, is the impression I must have instilled in you that I don't like the USA.
That my friend, is not correct, and I suspect you are reading a wee bit too much into my statements in my previous post

It is still a close allie to my nation, many of my friends have studied there, some even staysed on.
I make it a point to visit them, and other places/people as often as I can, with a great deal of enjoyment.

The fact that I don't see all things in the US as hunky dory, does not mean I don't still like it, or its inhabitants

Gun control = grip, sight alignment, trigger control, follow through, scan, repeat until threat eliminated.

Gun Control= Fighting the urge to spend to your money on another box of ammo or your wife's
birthday present.

The take away will be that thos sort of thing won't happen again.. Just like airplanes now when some acts up the entire passinger list jumps on top of the guy. People will be more aware and be ready to jump into the fray next time.. It is an unfortunate learning process... Next time a guy farts sideways, you will see the entire theater kick the snot out of him... Say what you want, but don't poke the sleeping giant.

Originally Posted by honedright

Gun control = grip, sight alignment, trigger control, follow through, scan, repeat until threat eliminated.

well said thats the only gun control im interested in !

After reading all of the posts a few stood out from the Normal Pro Gun -vs- Anti Gun rhetoric a few I did not single out were from a very very very few people who responded that have real street life experience...
We live in a country where the PC crowd is so vocal that I am no longer allowed to teach "Rape Defense" classes for women I have to teach "Street Defense" instead and I have to accept men in the class unless I hold it at a Womens only gym.. BTW I live in very rural Idaho, we vote very right wing, and most homes have a gun here, basically it is not a very PC area... Yet this is still true

Originally Posted by straightrazorheaven

Oh I'm not going anywhere, you don't get rid of me that easily, our friend said he was out of here .
I don't need weapons, if a guy came near me with a weapon I'd take it from him and shove it up his ass.

At 26 I was also invincible and at 53 I realized I was pretty lucky, I hope that you are not truely naive enough to think that a predator will ever give you a fair fighting chance..




These posts also stood out as they get more to the core problems

Originally Posted by donv

I've been staying away from this thread. But, what the heck, I'll give it a go. I am a gun owner. I am responsible and have never needed to use a gun to defend myself, and hope I never have to. I represent many, many people. There are enough laws restricting gun ownership and type and number of rounds/clip capacity. You will never get all the guns out of America, cant be done, just too many. AND, it wouldn't flippin' matter, because if someone is going to commit a crime, I really don't think that using a banned weapon will bother or hinder them. I live in the Socialist People's Republic of Kalifornia. The laws here are crazy, most are knee jerk reactions to incidents such as the crime in Colorado. That being said, what you will NEVER ban or control, is the actions of a determined person with a screwed up brain.

If he wanted to rack up a better death toll, he would have left the guns at home, taken two, one gallon plastic anti-freeze jugs of gas, block the fire exit from outside, buy ticket, spill gas, flick Zippo, done.

I feel this guy wasn't too concerned about number of dead, he just wanted to put on a show. As soon as I'm made Supreme Ruler of Earth, I'll address problems like this, but for now, I'll say a prayer for those who's lives have been taken, and those who's lives have been forever changed.

The killer is a rare find, as normally these things end with the death of the killer. That, and his station in life, he's no dummy, just got a bad brain. I say study him as much as possible, then, just put one through his head and bury him and move on.

Sorry if I upset anyone, PC is not my strong point. G'nite all, donv

Originally Posted by Mephisto

You have to agree that amongst modern democratic societies the US does poorly in some areas like homicide rates. However, two years ago, a teenager killed his girlfriend, her friend, the mother of the girlfriend and the grandfather. This happened in a small town. I lived about a half mile from where the gruesome scene occurred.

The point is the kid did not use a gun. It was a mass murder or serial killing. The Colorado incident is a similar occurrence. It was a rampage and a mass murder. This time the killer did use guns. When it comes to gun violence we tend to look at the incidents like Columbine, Va Tech and Aurora to cite reasons for gun control.

Aren't they just isolated incidents? They are stunning and shocking to be sure because they strike at us to the very core. Don't they represent a small portion of gun violence in the US? http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/welcome.htm

If we are going to cite the need for gun control let's not confuse the reasons behind it. Mass murders or spree killings are endemic of something else gone wrong in US society. Not guns. I am not saying we should not have gun control but please look at the real reasons so appropriate measures can take place.

Originally Posted by Johnus

I'm more concerned about the trend in the United States where because of issues of "privacy" and "fear of litigation" that people or organizations don't take action before something like this happens. I haven't read enough about this person yet but look at the past mass shootings. These guys just didn't snaps and say 'I going to... ' in almost all cases there has been a long history of them being troubled. Look at the Army Psychiatrist that shoot his fellow solders here in on base in the US. His commanding officers were afraid of taking action because it wasn't " politically correct". the same with the last mass college shooting. The college knew he had really problems but did nothing! Somethings gone wrong with our legal and mental health systems!

Originally Posted by BobH

Stayed out of this one, till now, but read the whole thread. Seems most of the rhetoric on both sides of the gun issue has died down a bit. When an incident like this takes place the immediate reaction is to focus on the gun issue both pro and con. That is only a part of the issue, the bigger part is how a person winds up in that state of mind to do such a thing. There are deeper societal issues as the root cause that need to be focused on too. These are difficult to access and come to grips with and even more difficult to correct.

I live in a country that has fairly strict gun control laws and yet we still have still have similar incidents. When this happens the very first thing that happens is to call for more gun control and not question what causes the perpetrators to think that this kind of behaviour is in anyway, shape or form tolerable. The simple answer here has been even more gun control and not much in the way of looking for at root causes. Politicians seem to like simple answers and have conveniently obliged with more, not so effective, gun control. Sort of a pacifier/soother for the general public who for the most part are urbanized and have little if any dealings with or knowledge of guns. Long winded way of saying there are much larger and more important causes at work than solely guns.

Bob

Think this through for just 1 minute..

The world has advanced in science quite a bit, let's just imagine a new jump in Nano tech and we have a new Nanobot that when released will eliminate every gun in the world by making them inoperative.. So overnight there are no "Guns" in the sense of the word...

Would this be a good thing???


Now put the weapons only in the hands of each Government,, (basically Soldiers and Cops) how would you feel now ??? We all trust our governments and politicians with our lives ... Right ???


Edit: To answer the OP

Full auto = Waste of rounds, IMO please dont take my opinion though look up the actual tests, or just ask yourself why they invented "Burst" settings..

Semi auto = Works just fine, as to whether you need more than 6 shots, just ask any LEO why they were switched from Revolver to Semi,, It makes no sense really, until the Deptments realized that more and more confrontations involved multiple assailants...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Now put the weapons only in the hands of each Government,, (basically Soldiers and Cops) how would you feel now ??? We all trust our governments and politicians with our lives ... Right ???

I've lived under Milosevic.. Hence my arguments with citizens being armed in order to combat tyranny.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Snip...


Now put the weapons only in the hands of each Government,, (basically Soldiers and Cops) how would you feel now ??? We all trust our governments and politicians with our lives ... Right ???

That is basically what we, and a lot more nations out there have done for years and years..
For some of those, that has proven to be a disaster.
For others, it has been the most natural thing in the world, and seems to work fine, as it has since world war II basically.
Although our cops aren't actually carrying either

To answer your quoted question, yes, as a matter of fact I do trust my government, our armed forces and our allies.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The world has advanced in science quite a bit, let's just imagine a new jump in Nano tech and we have a new Nanobot that when released will eliminate every gun in the world by making them inoperative.. So overnight there are no "Guns" in the sense of the word...

Would this be a good thing???

Assuming that would mean criminals wouldn't have them (we could always re-release these nanobots every so often), I'd be all for it here in the US. Can't speak for the rest of the world.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Now put the weapons only in the hands of each Government,, (basically Soldiers and Cops) how would you feel now ??? We all trust our governments and politicians with our lives ... Right ???

Essentially, yes, because we already do. How does private firearm ownership curtail government encroachment on our rights? Every time push has come to shove, the government just brought in superior firepower/capabilities. Having everyone armed just means SWAT teams kick your door in instead of having a couple policemen come knocking.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

I've lived under Milosevic.. Hence my arguments with citizens being armed in order to combat tyranny.

Did the citizens being armed help in that case? (Just curious - not saying it didn't.)

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

I've lived under Milosevic.. Hence my arguments with citizens being armed in order to combat tyranny.

Originally Posted by Birnando

That is basically what we, and a lot more nations out there have done for years and years..
For some of those, that has proven to be a disaster.
For others, it has been the most natural thing in the world, and seems to work fine, as it has since world war II basically.
Although our cops aren't actually carrying either

To answer your quoted question, yes, as a matter of fact I do trust my government, our armed forces and our allies.

Two immediate answers, and two exact opposites

I guess it really does depend on each person's life experiences

In all fairness "B", you do live in the #1 Country in the World for "Quality Of Life" according to many sources, and Norway has been at or near the top of that list for many years...