Thread: Separation of Church and...

Originally Posted by honedright

And yet those words were the basis to end those atrocities which still occur in parts of the world where those words have never been honored.

Not really. May be you can start backing up your assertions with evidence and reasoned arguments based on valid logic.
You can believe anything you want, but that doesn't make it true or valid for anything other than your own interaction with the rest of the world.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isnt the Bible just a piece of paper (inspired by God) written by man and continually edited by man for centuries to further his own beliefs? and the New Testament was not even written by men who knew Jesus personally, instead it was written 30 years (ish) to centuries after his death. Anything that can be corrupted by man will be, its a sad fact of life.

I believe in God and I believe that you all have the right to believe or not believe. What I believe in most is that God does not belong in politics. If there is a God he would truly be ashamed at men for things that have been done and continue to be done (and said) in his name.

Now if you will all excuse me I have to go prepare my self for the Mayan calender's end of days.

P.S. I do not judge anyone for their views please extend the same courtesy my way

Originally Posted by gugi

Not really. May be you can start backing up your assertions with evidence and reasoned arguments based on valid logic.
You can believe anything you want, but that doesn't make it true or valid for anything other than your own interaction with the rest of the world.

Your unwarranted and ineffectual insults aside; you might do well to follow your own advise.

Another prime example of the old adage of why you don't talk politics or religion with friends. This thread went sideways in a hurry.

A funny truth about ANY higher power...

With faith comes proof, with proof comes the loss of faith...

You have to mull that over a bit


You guys are arguing semantics from 200 years ago, to invoke "God" in a document gave it the power of law back then... It really has no more or no less meaning then the words now of something like "By the power vested in me by the Great State of Idaho"

Well, I think knowing what people actually meant when they wrote something back in the days is a really good place to start. The thing that justice Scalia has championed as originalism.

I don't have to agree with it, (I don't simply buy argumentum ad verecundiam), but that's the one meaning which is immutable.

Originally Posted by honedright

Just that whole little thing about "Inalienable rights" is dependent upon a higher power. If there is no higher power, then where'd those so called inalienable rights come from? Who or what gave them to you? And if they didn't come from a higher power, then they aren't really inalienable, are they.

The whole concept of 'inalienable' rights is silly.
What the word means is that the vast majority agrees with them so everybody
is prepared to abide by them, and to punish the ones who don't.

That's why the other term they used was 'self-evident'.

The way I think of a right, in this context, is that it is something another person can take away, but no person has the power to grant.
It has nothing to do with higher powers or any of that.

I just don't believe that anyone, or any group of people, has the ability to grant me rights - I already have them.

For instance: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
I have life, unless someone takes it.
I am free, unless someone takes some of my freedom.
I am able to pursue happiness, unless someone prevents me from doing so.


The only way a person can "grant" a right, is if it had already been taken in the first place.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

A funny truth about ANY higher power...

With faith comes proof, with proof comes the loss of faith...

You have to mull that over a bit

I think Glen is spot-on in his statement - it really IS that simple.

As long as relgion has been around people have been doing terrible thing to others in the name of that relgion.

With that said some truly good things have come out of relgion. Like a code of self conduct.