Thread: Separation of Church and...

Originally Posted by Jimbo

At this point in time I'd simply welcome the separation of Church from small boys. After that we can worry about politics.

James.

I can't in good conscience "like" your post but... my reaction startled the wife .

Originally Posted by gugi

The problem is this doesn't quite jive with the history. The early protestants in America were just as intolerant to different religions and variations of their specific religion, as the places they escaped, sometimes even more so.

By the time the constitution of the USA was drawn things had mellowed out a fair amount, and whoremongers and drunkards like Benjamin Franklin got to hold government positions as high as postmaster general

They were intolerant, which is why they wanted that protection of separation. None wanted any other getting anything over them.

Originally Posted by debay

Sooooo, If Im Gov of NC and I give my opinion that mint ice cream is nasty and that I prefer orange sherbet, thats technically wrong because now the whole state is somehow "forced" to stand behind my opinion? What if I say as Gov that on the following Sunday I want everyone who agrees with me to have Orange Sherbet ice cream after their sunday meal? oh, heaven forbid I mention Im having mine after a Sunday lunch at CHURCH. Heaven forbid. The only thing that makes this more complicated than ice cream is that religion is such a hot topic. Its actually quite simple if you let it be. This conversation is never going to move forward. You have your opinion, I have mine. I personally believe that christian values in a political figure are nice to have. They are human and subject to corruption like anyone else- they are politicians afterall- but I prefer it. A look at the founding fathers shows that many of them had strong protestant backgrounds and beliefs that they did not hide in their writings or public speakings. Could our government not use a stricter set of morals and guidelines right now? I think we need a whole lot more Jesus than we do insane taxes, corporate backscratching and back room deals. Im cutting off any responses because like I said, its a dead end debate. May God bless you and may your eyes see The Truth before its too late.

That may the single worst analogy I've ever read.


You knocked the living hell out of that strawman though.

Congratulations.

Not really, they already had the power and wielded it against anybody who wasn't willing to conform to that standard. We're talking the 'early protestants', right?
Political power and religious power were the same thing.

Originally Posted by gugi

Not really, they already had the power and wielded it against anybody who wasn't willing to conform to that standard. We're talking the 'early protestants', right?
Political power and religious power were the same thing.

They had their bases of regional power. None had colony wide power. Not early protestants period, but say pre revolutionary war to just after the war protestant groups.

Originally Posted by maddafinga

I'd like to add that a nation of vast majority Christian population really can't have a war on Christianity.

But you can have 'war on Christmas'
That's what the the main stream media says, anyways

debay --
"I would much rather have a political figure in office that promotes a solid christian lifestyle than one that doesnt. After all, most of our forefathers did."

And I'd much rather be on a planet populated by non-religious types who never demonstrate their stupidity to the rest of us by professing to "know" the unknown and the unknowable.
You want to believe, fine. Great. More power to you. Have at it. Jesus, Mohammed, Ahura Mazda, Rev. Sun Yung Moon, Jim Jones and Buddha will surely offer a toast to you with a six-pack. IMO we'd be much better off without the baloney religious claptrap. I saw and heard waaaaaayyy too much of it.
"May The Force Be With You."

Originally Posted by debay

Sooooo, If Im Gov of NC and I give my opinion that mint ice cream is nasty and that I prefer orange sherbet, thats technically wrong because now the whole state is somehow "forced" to stand behind my opinion? What if I say as Gov that on the following Sunday I want everyone who agrees with me to have Orange Sherbet ice cream after their sunday meal? oh, heaven forbid I mention Im having mine after a Sunday lunch at CHURCH. Heaven forbid. The only thing that makes this more complicated than ice cream is that religion is such a hot topic. Its actually quite simple if you let it be. This conversation is never going to move forward. You have your opinion, I have mine. I personally believe that christian values in a political figure are nice to have. They are human and subject to corruption like anyone else- they are politicians afterall- but I prefer it. A look at the founding fathers shows that many of them had strong protestant backgrounds and beliefs that they did not hide in their writings or public speakings. Could our government not use a stricter set of morals and guidelines right now? I think we need a whole lot more Jesus than we do insane taxes, corporate backscratching and back room deals. Im cutting off any responses because like I said, its a dead end debate. May God bless you and may your eyes see The Truth before its too late.

Does anyone else remember the hoo-ha when Bush Sr. announced that he hated broccoli? The broccoli industry went crazy!

You're missing the point. The governor *explicitly* linked social ills to the need to repent. That is a de facto indictment of everyone who does not share his own particular faith. That, in an elected official, is intolerable.

But, hey, it's nice to already have all the answers. Or at least I'm assuming you feel you have all the answers if you are unwilling to participate in a discussion. I remain genuinely curious as to the evidence for the school stories. And now I am even more curious to learn how exactly a prophet/messiah/son of God/long-haired, radical, socialist Jew (take your pick) from 2000 years ago would provide the solutions to the issues and concerns of the 21st century. If you find guidance, solace, and strength from your faith, that's fantastic and I sincerely hope that your faith continues to provide that for the rest of your life. But please do not presume that your or any other faith is what I or anyone else (let alone society at large) 'needs'.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=hhkHG...%3DhhkHG-oKCEU

Originally Posted by debay

I personally believe that christian values in a political figure are nice to have.

I think that's part of why you get bad government. There is a pretty sizable part in this country which believes that a 'good Christian' however they define it equals 'good governance'. Unfortunately this isn't true.
To start with the first thing people associate with Christians is hypocrisy - that ought to give every Christian a serious pause.

Secondly throughout human history there is plenty of evidence that 'good person' and 'good governor' have very little correlation. I think people who are in governing positions could be as corrupt and as lowlives as it comes, but as long as they are really good at their job and improve the life of the governed it's all good. How about a personal opinion that's pretty much the polar opposite of yours