Assault weopen carnage agian?

David, I agree, Willie did not need to go to the Car analogy, as last I checked driving is a "Privilege" in the US..
Owning a gun is a "Right"

When you start trying to take away a Right then things change..


Be very very careful when you ask for a basic Right to be changed, especially when it was so important that it is the 2nd one listed...

All that is just Rhetoric really though David...

Now for the rest of you

What I find reprehensible in fact down right deplorable is that all of the Gun Grabbing Left climbs right on up using the dead bloody bodies of the victims as their soap box, to advance their anti-gun message, that is truely sick.. Everyone of you that jumped on the soap box built on 20 dead children should hang your head in shame... Chew on that a bit, you all waited for another massacre to speak, Those of us that are shooters have had multiple threads going on this Forum for years.. The only time we hear from the left is when you use death to advance your agenda :(

Perhaps that is because, your arguments don't hold water with Stats or Facts so unless you can use dead bodies to help, you actually make no sense... You can't win this arguement using logic, we all know that, the numbers disprove it everytime, so only emotion can further your cause...




(see I can strike low blows too)


Honestly the only really good remark I have seen in this thread that hasn't been said over and over is the one from Furcifer asking why isn't there Security at every school, such a simple deterent...
If I were a Parent that would be my question

Which reminds me "Wow am I glad I never had Kids" I would be so worried about what they will be facing in the future..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Wullie - You should know by the amount of likes I give you lol, that I love 99% of the things you say so take this for what it is - a mere difference of opinion.

The part of your statement I highlighted I have a real problem with. I find it flawed logic. Comparing motor vehicles and guns just can't be done. In my opinion. Motor vehicles provide an economic good that pales any kind of economic good the sales of arms provides to society. Motor vehicles provide a utility that serves all Americans. Weapons can't claim that.

An automobile's externalitys... those things that are bad when used incorrectly, are unfortunate side effects. A guns "externalitys" are its purpose - and that is too kill.

A vehicle purpose is not to kill - a guns is. And that's all fine but we get a ton of good out of cars as a society. A guns is questionable.


As for the "SOMEBODY" who decided to turn left... yup! That would be over 50% of Americans.

Just saying...

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David, I respect and enjoy your input as well.

I'm kind of on the same page with EXCEPT a gun's purpose is not strictly to kill. I have used guns in the past to protect myself without firing a shot. I was fully prepared to but it wan't necessary as the offending persons saw it my way. I own and have owned a bunch of rifles and pistols that were made for nothing more than launching a projectile at a piece of paper. They would be very unwieldy and pretty much useless as "killing" devices. I can also say that with more guns in the hands of private citizens than we have people in this country that the actual rate of firearm mortality is extremely low. We can nit pick that to death and still not get anywhere. All I'm trying to illustrate is the knee jerk reaction to GUNS when something deplorable like this latest incident happens and the current administration's predictable use of this to get what they've wanted for along time, that being disarmament of the populace.

What it boils down to in my mind is that part of the country wants me to give up something they don't have or care about. The other part that scares me even worse is the fact that so far, collectively the private citizens, out number and out gun the current government. With all the new control regulations being implemented nationwide, ( TSA, VYPR check points on our roadways, use of the military in violation of the now defunct Posse commitatus act by the NDAA, willful destruction of our dollar, the army preparing for massive civil unrest etc etc) there may come a time when those that cried wolf will scream for help. I pray every night that will never happen.

Think about this. The country is basically only three days away from anarchy. A strong solar flare could take down the grid for years. Grocery stores have approximately three days of food at any point in time. Imagine this country with no electricity for a couple of weeks. It won't be fun nor will it be pretty.

So let's give up our stuff. Uncle Sam will be there, just like they were for New Orleans and New York.

I'll pass.

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."

- Adolf Hitler

It's kind of weird because I am VERY pro-gun. Moreover, I am with Glen - it's an American's right, not a privilege.

It's scale that I kind of have a problem with. Maybe efficiency would be a better term.

If you look at stats it's something between 2 to 3 shots when there is an altercation. Anyone who has shot, also knows that after that, hiding or running is probably a better solution lol! But I don't want to get too bogged down with what-if scenario's that do nothing but foster a bunch of Rambo want to be's day dreams of zombie... Moreover, I don't buy into needing these type of weapons to keep the government in order. In today's America, only a military force can do that.

I think 99% of the American public would be well served with a six gun, a shotgun, and a good bolt action/lever-gun. I know I would be fine with that - though I love my semi's and would miss them.

I don't understand the need for weapons designed to kill on mass, or used to provide a wall of lead that is 90% inefficient in the public forum. But that's just me and take that for what it is... a dude who's lived in one of the most violent society's in the western hemisphere - Kingston Jamaica.

What a dump!! I hope America never becomes like that!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

It's kind of weird because I am VERY pro-gun. Moreover, I am with Glen - it's an American's right, not a privilege.

It's scale that I kind of have a problem with. Maybe efficiency would be a better term.

If you look at stats it's something between 2 to 3 shots when there is an altercation. Anyone who has shot, also knows that after that, hiding or running is probably a better solution lol! But I don't want to get too bogged down with what-if scenario's that do nothing but foster a bunch of Rambo want to be's day dreams of zombie... Moreover, I don't buy into needing these type of weapons to keep the government in order. In today's America, only a military force can do that.

I think 99% of the American public would be well served with a six gun, a shotgun, and a good bolt action/lever-gun. I know I would be fine with that - though I love my semi's and would miss them.

I don't understand the need for weapons designed to kill on mass, or used to provide a wall of lead that is 90% inefficient in the public forum. But that's just me and take that for what it is... a dude who's lived in one of the most violent society's in the western hemisphere - Kingston Jamaica.

What a dump!! I hope America never becomes like that!

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Just how would you classify the individuals in Afghanistan that have managed defeat one super power and hold off another for thirty or forty years?

The facts are out, the guy used two pistols. The so called assault rifle was left in his murdered mom's stolen car. I'm sure that will continue to be irrelevant to the upcoming assault on our rights.

I'm done with this thread. I've got a freshly honed by MAGPIE, Challenge razor that needs a test drive and the weather outside is conducive to doing something besides wasting my energy with this.

Thanks to everyone for keeping it civil.

I shall continue to be a bitter clinger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earcutter

A vehicle purpose is not to kill - a guns is. And that's all fine but we get a ton of good out of cars as a society.

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Vehicles are not purposed to kill, yet they do, and that is acceptable as long society benefits from vehicles.

I don't see any reason not to apply that same logic to guns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wullie

Just how would you classify the individuals in Afghanistan that have managed defeat one super power and hold off another for thirty or forty years?

American support & stinger missiles.

The facts are out, the guy used two pistols. The so called assault rifle was left in his murdered mom's stolen car. I'm sure that will continue to be irrelevant to the upcoming assault on our rights.

Two "semi auto" pistols - I have owned both. Heck, the Glock I owned had a 30 round clip! I could put tons of lead down in seconds with those two pistols.

I'm done with this thread. I've got a freshly honed by MAGPIE, Challenge razor that needs a test drive and the weather outside is conducive to doing something besides wasting my energy with this.

:)

Thanks to everyone for keeping it civil.

I shall continue to be a bitter clinger.

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LOL! I am sorry Wullie - I don't think you should ever stop feeling as you do - seriously! It's your right and I respect how you feel towards it. I am merely pointing out another alternative - but yeah, it's a slippery slope and in today's climate of all or nothing... It becomes increasingly hard to have discussions about such things. I find that heart breaking.

I just want to point out another fact of sorts that many may not have thought through.

The NRA, where I live anyway, has done a fantastic job of ensuring its numbers. If you want to shoot at a range here, you have to enroll in the NRA - why? Because they are the only one's who are willing to provide decent insurance rates to the ranges I visit.

Hence, the NRA are awesome BUT, don't necessarily speak to what all are feeling.

Just a thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by honedright

Vehicles are not purposed to kill, yet they do, and that is acceptable as long society benefits from vehicles.

I don't see any reason not to apply that same logic to guns.

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Ok think of it this way.

Do you honestly think America would fall apart if all guns were removed from society?

Now were you take every motor vehicle out... in today's world, it would see us in the dark ages.

Not trying to be rude - just think about it.

Here is another simple solution that hardly ever gets air play, that I as a RKBA supporter would have Zero issues with..

1. Any Gun not in possesion of the owner must be locked up ie: some sort of Safe/Cabinet would be a law (these must be made in the US :p)
2. A "Gun Owner" license, much the same as a drivers license in fact might just be a Stamp on the drivers license like a MC stamp. that is a MINOR cost (monies go to School security) that says I can own a gun legally ie: answer all the BATF form questions... this must be re-newed periodically much like a driver's license.. This would also tie in with Health Care records to stop the "Mental Disorder" problems that seems to be a bigger issue then the weapons right now.
3. You must have had some sort of Firearm safety course, we already do this for hunters (in most states) so it is no big deal.

Simple easy solutions to many problems

I have been affected by gun in the past and present at the same time, means something never go away, never change or can be forgotten.

I have two questions to both of the sides:

1. "Would you give up your "right" to save this childrens lifes"?
2. "If you know your rights nd believe and you stand by them do you think you would change your mind if you will be ask to go to each of this families family and annouce death of your loveded child, parent, father... ?. Will this bring you mor numbnes or pain?"

Difficult questions, but let`s just think about it. I do not expect answers.