Thread: Assault weopen carnage agian?

I don't think Gun control is even possible. The U.S. is a very unique place. In one year deer hunters applied for over 2 million licenses in just 4 or five states. Now this is JUST the number of hunters not gun owners in these states. Those numbers right there represent the largest armed group on the planet including the US armed forces. (which will not fire on their own.) Then you have to consider this other group of guys they call the Militia. There are certain things that will activate the militia and seizing guns would be 1 of the first on the list. If anyone thinks that gun control will stop massacres of innocent citizens in their work place,day care center, or just a public place let me remind you of Timothy McVay and what he did with some fertilizer, diesel fuel, and manure. If you take away 1 device used to cause harm 2 more will take it's place. You can not control crazy by controlling guns. Okay I ranted some. Let's go over the edge here now. You want control? Control births, unwed mothers,dead beat dads, kids without proper upbringing. Put them all in the same fenced off state as child molesters, rapists, and politicians. We still won't have utopia but the news may be a little more boring. Oh and let's not forget stupid people. We have been passing laws to protect them for years and now they are breeding and all over the place. Let them smoke where ever they want, no seat belts, fine that's okay with me. Ride without a helmet sure, just go real fast in the corners please. If they want to be drug addicts lets give them a place to overdose on the stuff. We need a lobby group for controlling people, not guns. Cheese burgers kill more people than smoking, guns, cars and cancer combined. Where is the outrage over that? Off topic ? Basically no. Humans have a tendency to be self destructive. Sometimes they like to take a dozen or so others with them. What can you really do about it ?

Originally Posted by 10Pups

I don't think Gun control is even possible. The U.S. is a very unique place. In one year deer hunters applied for over 2 million licenses in just 4 or five states. Now this is JUST the number of hunters not gun owners in these states. Those numbers right there represent the largest armed group on the planet including the US armed forces. (which will not fire on their own.) Then you have to consider this other group of guys they call the Militia. There are certain things that will activate the militia and seizing guns would be 1 of the first on the list. If anyone thinks that gun control will stop massacres of innocent citizens in their work place,day care center, or just a public place let me remind you of Timothy McVay and what he did with some fertilizer, diesel fuel, and manure. If you take away 1 device used to cause harm 2 more will take it's place. You can not control crazy by controlling guns. Okay I ranted some. Let's go over the edge here now. You want control? Control births, unwed mothers,dead beat dads, kids without proper upbringing. Put them all in the same fenced off state as child molesters, rapists, and politicians. We still won't have utopia but the news may be a little more boring. Oh and let's not forget stupid people. We have been passing laws to protect them for years and now they are breeding and all over the place. Let them smoke where ever they want, no seat belts, fine that's okay with me. Ride without a helmet sure, just go real fast in the corners please. If they want to be drug addicts lets give them a place to overdose on the stuff. We need a lobby group for controlling people, not guns. Cheese burgers kill more people than smoking, guns, cars and cancer combined. Where is the outrage over that? Off topic ? Basically no. Humans have a tendency to be self destructive. Sometimes they like to take a dozen or so others with them. What can you really do about it ?

Aww man.... now I want a cheese burger, with everything.....extra death on the side

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Perhaps, chain link fence and razor wire around all schools,armed Guards,teachers packing glocks,guard towers with M60 machine guns, what a great invironment for young children to be educated in.

It would keep them in class and from playing hooky. But No, thats not a valid solution.

Me too. When I finish my smoke I am going to ride up and get one! Double double animal style even.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

As I said you cannot ever relate... you cannot ever see an American point of view it is just too foriegn to you...

Solving the "Issue" cannot begin or end with taking my "Rights" because of another's actions, if you don't understand and accept that as a fact, nothing you say can ever be meaningful to an American I tried to explain this during the last discussion but you never understood then either

Glen, you push this idea and it's just plain flawed. Why don't we allow developing countries to acquire weapons of mass destruction ... because of what others before them did. America is the first to suppress the rights of a nation if uncle SAM doesn't agree with it's ideals.

You say that taking your rights away because of another's actions isn't the correct coarse of action but ... it is the only coarse of action. Why do we even have laws ... because somebody at some time did something people just didn't agree with.

Allow me to comment on the "Marx" comment. That man had something. Communism works as an ideal, capitalism is the only thing wrong with communism.
My ideals are based on a life in a socialist country where crime rates are low. Yeah my motorbike was stolen before I left, but had I confronted the thief would I have been shot ... unlikely. Would the thief have ever seen a gun ... unlikely.

Would you give up your weapons if it would prevent another atrocity such as this?

As for saying we build our soap boxes from the corpses of those innocent children. That is disgusting. This is the time for action, when an event such as this is fresh in the minds of even the most conservative voter. If all these lives are lost and nothing changes, they truly died in vein. No matter how much you live your rights you can't deny something has to change. The system can't change, there is too much corruption in the GOP to allow that to happen. They can't even agree on a budget for crying out loud.

I have had time to reflect on why Britain has the violent crime rate it does. If you put your hand on a person, who doesn't want it there, you can be arrested for assauLt.
Take that as you will.

Just thoughts on my mind all day, reading this thread, neither right or wrong . It just eats at me to have a problem, with no definitive single answer.

1. The shooter in this case, as in most cases, knew that before the sun set, that he would live forever in infamy. he chose a target that would guaranteee that. Why don't we take that pleasure from him. We protect the identity of rape victims, for the most part. Lets take his away & give him a label with a number. Don't restrict the coverage of the carnage, but label him at the scene as soon as he is identified. I don't think that there is a news agency or reporter that would not go along with removing his identity /photos from public view; they get to broadcast the carnage, as they like to, but make the shooter a faceless label. Access his identity through a judge , with just cause.

2. Security at our schools is horrible. I've seen it all my adult life, on & off the job. We don't need the barbed wire & M60 as mentioned above, but controlled access points during certain hours, can surely be made. I'm not talking about reporting to the office clerk upon arrival, controlled access must be considered at the perimeter. We fight for teacher rights, better teacher pay, all of that is great, if you live to spend it. Security guards at most school are not even real security guards. They complete no standardized basic course for the most part. How are they to spot a potential problem, let alone handle it? Put the money there, train them. How about we funnel some of that Green Jobs money there? Wanna raise my taxes this year, use it to secure our schools.

3. Everyday there are 6 to 8 kids sitting outside the door guidance counselors office, for various reasons, some of them went there to seek help. I'm seen my school guidance councilors, God bless them, but they need training & help. The young person reassigning classes to a student's curriculum, make not be the best choice to handle the future trench coat psycho.

4. If your child told you a crazy story, that they heard about Little Billy at school, who would you tell? Call the office, speak to some temp answering the phone? Set a meeting with the principle or counselor? Probably not. Give us a hotline number of trained people who can look into it immediately.

5. Parents want to talk to others about their own children, all the time. They want advice, they want options. They don't have the money, or the time to leave work. Make resources readily available & I don't mean a meeting next week.

I asked my son 3 years ago, what would he do if a man walked into his room with a gun. I waited for two minutes, as he thought in silence. That was a long two minutes for me. He said, 'I don't know." I bet his fellow students don't know either. I told him what I wanted him to do in a situation like that. I have been giving these same instructions every 6 months since the long two minutes.
I'm not going to give the instructions here, they may not be agreeable to all, I'm no expert & if my instructions lead to failure or death, then I live with it, no one else has to. Teach your kids or have someone teach them how to respond to immediate threats.

Children who live next to the woods, are taught at a early age what to do if they walk up on a snake.
The snakes now crawl in our schools, teach them how to react.

Teachers should be required to complete a course in immediate threats, I don't mean a 2 day seminar.

Have children really ever been our Country's priority? Sadly, I say no. Just don't no one tell me, we don't have the money. We just don't take the time.

How do you fix these social problems without removing firearms?

I have some ideas. First of all there needs to be a well funded, powerful social service that cares for those in need. It needs to be far reaching, from hospitals, to schools, and homes ... even in prisons. It can follow individuals wherever they go and help the needy.

Next there needs to be free universal healthcare. The social service can refer individuals with problems to the health service to help. The community would be less divided, public unrest would be lessened.

Children need a uniform, high quality education. From what I have witnessed, Americans get a mediocre education. There is a minimal amount expected from the children. There needs to be a hierarchical education system where the best are educated with the best, and the lowest achievers are helped in a way that is relevant to them. That is how education works in the UK.
When I talk about education I'm not talking about content. I'm talking about all the other things that go along with it, like discipline. The teachers here have no power at all. In England, a teacher can take away your lunch, all of it, for good reason. If you continue to misbehave you stay for a hour after school, then ... Saturday mornings. The teachers need more power.

The huge gap between rich and poor needs closing. The housing standards for the poor are DISGUSTING. I have seen better slums in Africa, and I am not exaggerating. How can you expect people to live this way and get on in life.

Americans get screwed by businesses, how can Att charge over $200 a month for my phone contract, then charge me for a phone. In England we pay £25 a month including a top of the line phone. This isn't off topic, the government doesn't give two hoots about the American people. The government needs to care first and the people will follow.

How can the people be expected to respect life when the police don't? I have seen police drag people from cars for taking you long to give id.

The kids here have few responsibilities. Yet they can drive? Most kids don't even have a job, what's that all about? I'm talking 13-14 year olds. I held a job from being 12.

Originally Posted by proximus26

Furcifer,
Sorry I took this out from your context but you are kidding me? You really stand behind statement "socialist thinking and vice-versa". Well in this case all of European and öther countries "are bunch of socialist idiots. Thank you for wake up call. Sorry I have enough. My grandmother live in house which is older that USA. If I tell you that socialism is perfectly implemented in USA, you will probably do not believe me... And moderator, yes please you can ban me or remove this post but I will not agree with Furcifer statement.

It is time to cool down. Time to hone 20 razors.

Yes, it is out of context. You misquoted me. The correct quote of the complete thought and reference would be, "...other countries where laws reflect socialist thinking and vice-versa...". That means that there are other countries where their laws follow their thinking and their thinking follows their laws. One feeds the other and such is often the nature of socialist systems, but that is neither here nor there. Nowhere did I say they were idiots; some friends of mine actually believe it is preferable. I said there are plenty of such countries to go live in, if socialism happens to be a person's preference. As for the socialism that currently exists in the U.S, I am actually too well-aware of it, and I contend that it is contrary to the Founder's intent for this country.

Im sorry, but more government is not the answer.

Originally Posted by straightrazorheaven

How do you fix these social problems without removing firearms?

I have some ideas. First of all there needs to be a well funded, powerful social service that cares for those in need. It needs to be far reaching, from hospitals, to schools, and homes ... even in prisons. It can follow individuals wherever they go and help the needy.

Next there needs to be free universal healthcare. The social service can refer individuals with problems to the health service to help. The community would be less divided, public unrest would be lessened.

Children need a uniform, high quality education. From what I have witnessed, Americans get a mediocre education. There is a minimal amount expected from the children. There needs to be a hierarchical education system where the best are educated with the best, and the lowest achievers are helped in a way that is relevant to them. That is how education works in the UK.
When I talk about education I'm not talking about content. I'm talking about all the other things that go along with it, like discipline. The teachers here have no power at all. In England, a teacher can take away your lunch, all of it, for good reason. If you continue to misbehave you stay for a hour after school, then ... Saturday mornings. The teachers need more power.

The huge gap between rich and poor needs closing. The housing standards for the poor are DISGUSTING. I have seen better slums in Africa, and I am not exaggerating. How can you expect people to live this way and get on in life.

Americans get screwed by businesses, how can Att charge over $200 a month for my phone contract, then charge me for a phone. In England we pay £25 a month including a top of the line phone. This isn't off topic, the government doesn't give two hoots about the American people. The government needs to care first and the people will follow.

How can the people be expected to respect life when the police don't? I have seen police drag people from cars for taking you long to give id.

The kids here have few responsibilities. Yet they can drive? Most kids don't even have a job, what's that all about? I'm talking 13-14 year olds. I held a job from being 12.

Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus

It has been suggested both here and in the media that teachers should carry firearms. I oppose this for several reasons. Teachers are often called upon to break up fights. Imagine the consequences and subsequent outrage if a teacher is somehow relieved of their weapon whilst doing so.

Did you read the thread? No, one doesn't go break up a fist fight while carrying IWB. A safe in the classroom which many teachers already have for other purposes is a better place for the firearm most of the time. One case exists where an AP retrieved a firearm from his car and stopped a nutbag. The point is that teachers are Citizens first and since CCW already exists in 38 states, most of which include required training so that they know what they're doing when they carry. It doesn't take much for a legislature to recognize that CCW training is adequate for teachers as responsible Citizens to be able to maintain an available modern means of defense.

OK, it's true that a few bad things will still happen, but it's better than having to stand by and watch 22 children get slaughtered. American sacrifices for individual Rights and freedoms hold to the idea that it's MUCH better to lose lives as a result of too much freedom, than to lose lives as a result of too much oppression and abrogation of human civil Rights.