Thread: Assault weopen carnage agian?

Better yet why not an off duty Police Officer in uniform,, I hired them all the time for the Nightclubs had a very chilling effect on problems..

Had a positive effect for any response times we needed, even simple things like a slip and fall, let alone actual problems

Originally Posted by honedright

Maybe teachers carrying at school is not the solution. Or maybe only certain teachers well trained in firearms. Why didn't Sandy Hook have an armed School Resources Officer?

Dude I think the town has had like one murder in the last year or two! Who would have thunk...

I for one... now hear me out, am torn between making sure everyone has a gun vs. a semi police state. You start putting cops and want-to-be cops all over America... a country that has it's fair share of cops already in my opinion, and... well.

America already has the highest incarceration rate in the free world.

I think people have a hard time not being able to find a solution to monsters in society. There is no answer unfortunately....I hear there is growing support for teachers to carry. In MN if the principle approves it a teacher can carry in class.

Originally Posted by earcutter

Dude I think the town has had like one murder in the last year or two! Who would have thunk...

I for one... now hear me out, am torn between making sure everyone has a gun vs. a semi police state. You start putting cops and want-to-be cops all over America... a country that has it's fair share of cops already in my opinion, and... well.

America already has the highest incarceration rate in the free world.

I think we go from one extreme to the other. How about a middle ground where the law abiding have the upper hand?

Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

Bob, does the society lose the privilege at some time if it's abused? I know that's collective punishment, a bit like taking the TV away from the entire family because one kid is watching too much (poor analogy I know) but where is that line which can be crossed for 'someone' to say "Right, that's it, you can't be trusted any more, give me the guns". I know that's a rather paternal idea, but I'm sort of playing with the idea that I'm the wise old emperor overlord chief type guy. I think if I were such an entity I would have got a bit stern with my stupid citizens by now... :-)

Well, it is pretty simple as usually a right contained in a country's constitution can't normally be taken away, easily that is. A privilege OTH can easily be taken away by a government from it's citizens. That has occurred many times in Canada concerning guns during my life time. So really there is no way to apply that line of thought in the USA.

I do know where you are coming from in your family example but I am not too sure I want to live under a benevolent dictatorship. I think I would sooner suffer under a chaotic democracy with all it's inherent flaws. The concept of punishing all for the actions of a few is too militaristic in nature for me to handle.

Bob

Just as an aside(?) while in Australia (which country has, arguably, some of the strictest gun control laws in the world) just several weeks ago, there was a news report on tely that 3 people had been shot at a wedding in Sydney. I had just been in Sydney maybe 2 days before, walking around at night with my friends and with a, in retrospect, false sense of security because I knew no-one (sure) would use a gun to attack me in Aussie land. Well, BS, in all honesty I felt naked without my weapon and was constantly on guard. I loved Australia, but I don't think I would ever be comfortable living there just for that reason.

For school security, use the Israeli model.
In time of war
The Israeli answer to terrorism
By Massad Ayoob

• little to no teacher/union problems
• motivated guards
• relatively small cost since guards are mostly volunteers
• already has a track record

Originally Posted by Minnebrew

I think people have a hard time not being able to find a solution to monsters in society. There is no answer unfortunately....I hear there is growing support for teachers to carry. In MN if the principle approves it a teacher can carry in class.

Perhaps, chain link fence and razor wire around all schools,armed Guards,teachers packing glocks,guard towers with M60 machine guns, what a great invironment for young children to be educated in.

Originally Posted by straightrazorheaven

would never arm myself against another human.
A human is another matter, I would rather die than kill, and it saddens me that others don't feel the same.

I can respect this sentiment. And for those that feel this way I say don't arm yourself. Like any other right we enjoy, its a right not an obligation. If you're uncomfortable with it, don't do it. But expect that the rest of us may choose otherwise. I own several guns. I did not buy them because I wanted to hunt or put food on my table. Our second amendment rights have nothing to do with supplying sustenance. Its specifically designed to offer the average person protection, protection from other citizens and their government. This may be a notion considered outdated by many yet it is still a right many of us hold dear.....NOT granted by gov't but by God himself. Our founders were very clear on this matter.

As for the problem at hand. You can legislate for eternity. How many gun laws were broken in this crime? The problem is that many feel that the solution is to pass more legislation when the last round of legislation did not help. Every example of unlawful gun violence is another demonstration of the fact that gun laws do not protect us. As is the usual, we get caught up in the argument over a CONSTITUTIONAL right rather than the breakdown of gov't. We question the second amendment on a daily basis but maybe we should be questioning the notion of the separation of church and state. Imagine if we shifted this debate to that topic instead. We've relentlessly ran the God and the morality of organized religion out of nearly every corner of public life, a notion that I personally believe would be contrary to what our founders would have planned. And in that void we question why we have these problems. We question the second amendment but not the nature of the criminal. Freedom comes with immense responsibility. What held us together in the beginning was our moral compass. Not morality as we accept it today but morality none the less. It served as a glue holding our social fabric together. Now that we've removed that we wonder why we can't find our way. A separate debate perhaps, but just as relevant as that of the second amendment. Or perhaps we would be better served debating the FAILURES of gov't to protect us from these individuals and the failures of our laws from keeping individuals like this from causing harm. After all, what is a total ban on firearms but another law, just an inadequate as all of those that have preceded it when not properly enforced.

I can't guarantee that the rest of society will hold the same values as I do. Therefore, I will continue to arm myself and will be prepared to protect myself. This reflects a shortcoming on their behalf not mine. And for that I make no apologies. My right to do so is not responsible for this tragedy, their inability to handle this freedom is. I am not the problem, they are. Again, I make no apologies.

This is like an episode of Alex Jones Infowars..wow