Thread: Coffee or Tea

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

my aeropress came today. I just made a double expresso(those are the default instructions ). I used some just average coffee, nothing special. not even a dark roast.

It came out pretty good. I added som hot water to make an americano and it still pretty good. I like it. Very easy to clean to.

May need to buy another one for work.

Thanks for the update!

Does americano just mean regular coffee as we know and love it in america? Does a double expresso with water added just taste like a good american coffee, or is there a distinct difference and a "watered down" taste if that makes sense.

Sorry for the basic questions I don't drink expresso so I don't know anything about it, and I'm just getting into coffee, so I know very little about it also

An Americano generally refers to an equal part hot water to espresso. (Though Starbucks does not go by this guideline, and there's a lot more water involved, just in case you're thinking of ordering it there.)

If the proportions are right, an Americano is a nice cuppa. Otherwise it can taste pretty weak.

I agree on the Americano. When I have no other option such as when travelling, stuck in an Airport, etc. I will drink a Charbucks Americano. It is predictable (all are made with a superautomatic machine) and suffers less from being roasted too dark.

Funny thing, I was interviewed by the AP about Homeroasting and commented that the reason Starbucks roasted so dark was that it made it easier to get a consistent product. Otherwise a Peruvian coffee one year, might be considerably different from another vintage. Roasting darker lessens the variation, because at that stage you are tasting the roast more than the coffee.

The company rep responded thet they roasted dark "to bring out the beauty of the bean." Hogwash. They roast it the way they do, because they can sell it that way. Given a choice, people almost always prefer an optimimly roasted high quality coffee. (/soapbox)

There of course is a somewhat amusing story about the British.

Originally Posted by Pyment

I agree on the Americano. When I have no other option such as when travelling, stuck in an Airport, etc. I will drink a Charbucks Americano. It is predictable (all are made with a superautomatic machine) and suffers less from being roasted too dark.

Funny thing, I was interviewed by the AP about Homeroasting and commented that the reason Starbucks roasted so dark was that it made it easier to get a consistent product. Otherwise a Peruvian coffee one year, might be considerably different from another vintage. Roasting darker lessens the variation, because at that stage you are tasting the roast more than the coffee.

The company rep responded thet they roasted dark "to bring out the beauty of the bean." Hogwash. They roast it the way they do, because they can sell it that way. Given a choice, people almost always prefer an optimimly roasted high quality coffee. (/soapbox)

There of course is a somewhat amusing story about the British.

I assume you call it charbucks because you think the coffee tastes burnt? That's interesting, because little old me not really knowing my coffee very well (yet?) thinks the same thing. I really don't like their coffee, and it seriously tastes burnt to me. It's due to over roasting the beans?

I like a lot of different coffees, and a couple of Starbucks' are nice. I like a good dark roast in general, though, so am not adverse to it. A nice oily dark bean is pretty sweet.

Originally Posted by pjrage

I assume you call it charbucks because you think the coffee tastes burnt? That's interesting, because little old me not really knowing my coffee very well (yet?) thinks the same thing. I really don't like their coffee, and it seriously tastes burnt to me. It's due to over roasting the beans?

Exactly! I once used this term when talking to a Papua New Guinea grower. He said, "That's what we call them. They burn the hell out of our beans!"

Here are the degrees of roast from lightest to darkest

Cinnamon - tends to be sour, herbal (in a bad way) few roast this light

City-this is the roast that people use for critical evaluation of coffee. It tends to have the most origin character, but some good flavors may be underdeveloped at this point.

City+ not really an official roast level. It is really a slightly darker city roast. Here the flavors are more fully developed than at a true city roast. This is my favorite level for coffees with "high" notes. Lime, lemon, cherry, blueberry, etc. Certain coffees tend to do well at this roast Ethiopians (Harrar, Sidamo, Yirgacheffe), Yemeni and others.

Full City - different people define this differently. I have ordered city roasted coffee from some roasters that roast to order and gotten coffee roasted way too dark. They didn't get a second order from me. this is a medium roast. There really should be no oil on the outside of the bean. This roast should have a medium body and you can start to get notes of chocolate and caramel here (providing you are roasting the right bean. Roasting to this level can tame some wild notes that may have been overbearing in a lighter roast.

Full City+ again this is not a conventional term. I use it to describe a slightly darker Full City roast. A lot of coffees have their "sweet spot" here. Particularly the well balanced Central American coffees and some South American

Vienna is a slightly darker roast. We are starting to get into Starbucks land. I roast very few coffees this dark. This is where roast flavors begin to overshadow bean flavors. It is a useful roast for specific purposes like espresso, espresso blends, and other blends. This is a roast that, if done right, will really emphasize the sweetness and body. You want that as a component of some blends and some styles of espresso. There are certain beans that tend to do well with this kind of roast - Brazil, Sumatran. Java. and other Indonesians. There is oil here say up to 50%.

French - here we find much of Starbucks line up. This is where roast really begins to dominate and you have lost much of the origin flavor. Beans are oily. This is again useful in blends (usually "morning" blends) and darker styles of espresso.

Vienna and French can be done well and be a pleasant note in a blend. You have to start with a bold (almost out of balance) coffee for it to have any origin character when you are roasting this dark. Those are the same coffees I like lighter to appreciate those soaring high notes.

Spanish = burnt

Originally Posted by Pyment

Here are the degrees of roast from lightest to darkest

That's a lot of options. Silly question - how do you know which stage you've reached during the roasting? From what I remember reading, some people have trouble recognising the "second crack" let alone fine tuning the roast to the degree you mention. Is it down to timing, or can you check visually?

Originally Posted by Rajagra

That's a lot of options. Silly question - how do you know which stage you've reached during the roasting? From what I remember reading, some people have trouble recognising the "second crack" let alone fine tuning the roast to the degree you mention. Is it down to timing, or can you check visually?

That depends on your roaster.

It's nice if you have a temp readout, but the less complex roasters don't have this. However home roasters are a resourceful lot. There isn't a commercial roaster that hasn't been "hacked". One of the common hacks is to sneak a thermocouple into the bean mass.

If you have a temp readout, you can figure what temp each level of roast corresponds to. First crack occurs about 395-404 F, city would be just above that. There is a temp for each roast level.

I have never been much of a hacker. So, I learned to roast with my senses. I listen for the cracks. City is right after 1st crack completes. Full City + is just a few snaps into 2nd crack. There are typical smells for some of the stages. I couldn't really describe it, but I know what the smell is like just before the cracks. There is smoke right at fullcity that increases as you get into second crack. Then there are color changes for each degree of roast. Of course the color changes don't hold up for every bean. For instance, Sumatrans will often appear lighter than their degree of roast. As you learn your roaster, you get a feel for where the different degrees of roast occur. I started with an iRoast but when I upgraded some of the roasting was different. The colors, cracks, and smells are the same, but the timing, profiles, and adjusting the roaster has to be relearned. Some skills transfer, some don't.

Often the recommendation is to take a bean that has a fairly large "sweet spot". Usually a Papua New Guinea or one of the more robust centrals (a Nicaraguan or a Guatemalan) and for the first roast, take it right through second crack. That helps you learn how a bean progresses through the roasting process and observe the sensory changes as you go. After that you can try to hit various degrees of roast so you know how to do that.

I prefer coffee, nice and strong, the way they serve it at Fourbucks. But I also enjoy a good cup of tea. as Jean-Luc would say, "Earl Gray. Hot."

So, can I expect that if I find Starbucks coffee to taste burnt, that I will find some/most Vienna and all French roasts to also taste burnt?

Or is starbucks doing something else too that is making it taste worse?