Thread: Bullfight

Hmm, bullfighting's an awful fair fight.

I might be a touch more OK with it if the matador (matado in my dream world) went up against a nice healthy bull barehanded.

That would be awful manly.

As it stands now, it's an awful shame. Nothing "fine" about it.



Hey, lets go watch a boxer with weighted gloves beat a gigantic, enraged, mentally handicapped guy to death!

ole.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

C'mon y'all, I can understand the cruelty of it and empathize with your positions. However, it is traditional, and obviously a dream of of Ray's. I'm happy that he's getting to fulfill it, and with his wife to boot.

It's good to get the facts, I think. I can't say I don't have a certain level of morbid curiosity, but it is perhaps one of the cruelest events you can attend in the west these days. Pretty shocking that in spain it gets some public funding, or did until not so long ago.

Interesting that the spanish populous would have it banned.

It goes against the grain of the hunter and the democrat, to some level or another (In spain, for the latter).

My opinion and my impression, as an Spanish, is that there isn't really, at least yet, a true oposition to bullfighting within the Spanish population...but hey, we are that nation where some crazy guys (just a few) kill others because they want to separate their region from Spain...but they cannot even get to win the elections in the local goverment of that region!!!

Just my opinion, of course...

I know that Barecelona voted to get shot of it, and something like 70% of the population have no interest in keeping it. The older generation made up the majority of those who voted to keep.

Originally Posted by Quick Orange

C'mon y'all, I can understand the cruelty of it and empathize with your positions. However, it is traditional, and obviously a dream of of Ray's. I'm happy that he's getting to fulfill it, and with his wife to boot.

I do not think anyone was criticising Ray for going. I think it was more general criticism of the activity. I think he should go.

Bullfighting is one of the last remaining "spectacles of death" in the western world and it has deep historical roots. If you're interested in that kind of thing - on an intellectual/cultural level, not for entertainment, than you should go.

Jordan

Originally Posted by jorgeovi

Cuchillería Comercial Viñas, Atocha street, Nº 62

Just got back from the trip last night. We had a blast. Thanks again for all the tips, esp with regards to the food and wine. The cutlery advice was also spot on - the old couple there just had a few pieces of doble temples left (no medallion taurinos or para barbas duras), but I managed to pick up a NOS Fillie 14 spike.

We were disappointed as the corrida was cancelled due to some event in the city. We took our chances a couple of hours before the bullfight the next day, and managed to get some tickets from a scalper. Well, the seats were so high up that if this was Yankee stadium, we'd be at the concession stands. Except the "bleacher creatures" don't smoke cigars while watching the game.

Here are some photos from the bullfight for those who would care to see. I do try to experience other cultures when I travel, and try not to be judgemental. For good or bad. Like "a fly on the wall." So if you have strong feelings about the subject, or are squeamish, you may want to pass.

Lastly, you may want to click on the "show info" tab on the slideshow for some descriptions.

"Death in the Afternoon" (after Hemingway's book of the same title, where he talks about bullfighting, mostly in this same bullring).

Really cool pics thanks Ray. I've had a copy of Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon for more years than I care to admit and I've read it a few times. I love the photos of Juan Belmonte face to face with the bull and Hemingway's analysis of courage and the bullfight in general. Anyhow, I enjoyed the photos and hope that maybe someday I will be able to actually experience the real thing instead of the armchair adventure.

Thanks Ray!!

I knew when Ray first posted that he was going that there would be the inevitable anti bull fighting posts. I've never been to a bull fight but when I was a kid I first read Death In the Afternoon by Ernest Hemingway. He was a newspaper reporter before he was a novelist and it is quite a book. If I was to come back as a bull in the next life I would rather die bravely in the bullring than be taken to a slaughter house to furnish steak and hamburger for the supermarket.

It may seem that the bullfighter is abusing the poor defenseless bull but that ain't the way it is if you know what it is really about. If the whole scenario is carried out the way it is meant to be the matador, picadors and banderillaros are risking death or serious injury by a beast weighing more than a ton and bred for the purpose of fighting and killing. More than 50 matadors have been killed in the bullring including some of the greatest.

There is a purpose in all aspects of the fight from the picador's horse being killed to give the bull a taste of blood to the banderillaro placing the banderillas in the bull's neck. Here is an excellent Wiki article for anyone who might want to read further on bullfighting in general and here is another on matadors in particular.

In all of my 60 years I've known maybe a half dozen guys that really loved to fight with their fists and feet. I don't mean that they would fight if they had to .... a lot of us will do that. I mean they really loved to fight. One of them that I knew once told me that it is "in the blood like a race horse". I believe that he was right and that is what a fighting bull is ... and I guess a matador too.

The controversy is understandable. Even in Spain, there are incessant debates about whether bullfighting should be banned. I am told the population is divided right down the middle among those for and against it.

Yes there is serious risk. Many matadors are killed or injured. In fact, the matador celebrated that day, Sebastian Castella, was gored by a bull in 2004 and at the San Fermin festivities last year. His bravery was more impressive as most matadors, once injured, tend to take less chances in the ring, if they continue to perform at all.

For those who are not aware, the bull only fights once. It is supposed to be "the first meeting between man and beast," as Hemingway described. If the bull fights repeatedly, it is almost sure that the bull will win. In fact, hundreds of years ago, this was the case, when poor towns that could not afford to buy a bull for each bullfight re-used the bulls. One town in particular used the same bull for 2 years, and in that span had killed close to 50 people and injured many others. So much so that the Pope banned bullfighting altogether. It was only when it was decided that the bull be used only once was bullfighting allowed again.

As for me, I just like to see and experience things, within reason. There are always good and bad things, wherever you go. I do not see myself as being in any position to criticize or judge other cultures. The world is just too small a place.