Thread: One I'm working on, second attempt

Originally Posted by Bruno

What's the reason for choosing A2?

It was the cheap scrap that the water jet guy had in 0.250". I think I paid $50 for eight or ten blanks. It might not be ideal, in fact I'd rather have had O1 or 52100, but A2 at 60-61 should be fine.

I'd stay away from 52100 if I were you. After heat treatment it is so very abrasion resistant that grinding it becomes a real drag.
If you don't have a good belt grinder with ceramic belts, 52100 is not a good steel to work with.
and even if you have, for a razor it is really no better than O1.

But indeed, if you got a dozen blanks for 50$, that's a good deal especially.

Originally Posted by celticcrusader

Looks very good so far, just a personal thing not in anyway a criticism I would like to see the heel a little more rounded off just think it would give it a better overall look. :-)

I thought much the same jamie.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'd stay away from 52100 if I were you. After heat treatment it is so very abrasion resistant that grinding it becomes a real drag.
If you don't have a good belt grinder with ceramic belts, 52100 is not a good steel to work with.
and even if you have, for a razor it is really no better than O1.

But indeed, if you got a dozen blanks for 50$, that's a good deal especially.

I just upgraded to a Wilmont Grinders TAG101. I also have that 1 hp disc grinder seen here, also variable speed.

Attachment 201746

The next thing I'm going to say, please take lighthearted, because I'm saying it with a smile. I'm not overly concerned about 52100's abrasion resistance compared to O1. 95% of my knives are in CPM20CV, which is Crucible's version of B-U M390. Of course, I finish it out almost completely ground before heat treat, because at 62 rhc and 4% vanadium, it's as hard to grind as woodpecker lips. Otherwise I use 52100 and AEB-L, both of which I grind completely after heat treat. Not bad at all with ceramic belts. I wish I could find thick AEB-L, because it is actually razor blade steel and would make a great straight razor.


I love O1 though. Very fine grained and takes a super keen edge. 52100 does too though. Lots of high end kitchen knives being made in 52100 right now. I think razor guys and kitchen knife guys are about equally as crazy regarding their edges. Both know what SHARP! is. A yanagi-ba in Hitachi White steel will make you shiver it's so sharp, even coming from a straight razor frame of mind. It's that single bevel that makes it so crazy.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'd stay away from 52100 if I were you. After heat treatment it is so very abrasion resistant that grinding it becomes a real drag.
If you don't have a good belt grinder with ceramic belts, 52100 is not a good steel to work with.
and even if you have, for a razor it is really no better than O1.

But indeed, if you got a dozen blanks for 50$, that's a good deal especially.

I just upgraded to one of the top of the line grinders made right now, a Wilmont Grinders TAG101. I also have that 1 hp disc grinder seen here, also variable speed.

Attachment 201746

The next thing I'm going to say, please take lighthearted, because I'm saying it with a smile. I'm not overly concerned about 52100's abrasion resistance compared to O1. 95% of my knives are in CPM20CV, which is Crucible's version of B-U M390. Of course, I finish it out almost completely ground before heat treat, because at 62 rhc and

I look forward to seeing your progress. For the scales, it's truly easier to start with 1/8" material than messing on thinning down knife scales...been there and done that.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

I look forward to seeing your progress. For the scales, it's truly easier to start with 1/8" material than messing on thinning down knife scales...been there and done that.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I do a lot of stacked scales on my knives, so I have a massive amount of 0.030-0.125" G10. Most of my natural material knife scales aren't long enough for razors anyway, being around 5" long or so. I make mostly smaller knives.

Sharp and abrasion reistance are 2 different things though. The suminagashi steel I use has a white paper steel core. It takes an incredible edge. But so does my standard O2 (I actually don't like O1 that well, though it is good steel). Imo O2 is the best steel possible for a razor.

What I was getting at: spectialty steel can make sense for tools that see wear; which have to endure a lot of rough work. A kitchen knife in 52100 makes sense. A razor in 52100 doesn't. The things that 52100 is good at, are irrelevant for straight razors. A straight razor is not subject to shearing forces, not subject to impact, not subject to wrenching, etc. From a functional aspect, 52100 does absolutely nothing for a razor except make it a lot harder to make

Interesting because the people selling O2 in the UK say that one of its qualities is that it has a fair amount of wear resistance. It also has the same amount of chromium as steel like 5160 and 9260 and a TON of manganese. As for the toughness of something like 52100, i would think that would be a good thing if you were going for high hardness and VERY thin blades. One downside with 52100 is that you cannot get the optimum heat treatment for fine, stable edges using a forge to austenize it. You need some fairly good temperature control to keep all of the carbon from going into solution and that says that it must be kept under 1500F, 1475F seeming to be the optimum temperature. If you go by what you are saying, then I would think that something like Hitachi Whiite #1 would be the "ultimate" razor steel as it is very pure, fine grained, takes scary fine edge, is easy to hone, doesn't have all of the "impurities" that can negatively impact those desirable properties and it obviously
raisin" to some fairly primitive forging and heat treating methods. A lot of the hype that you might have heard about 52100 is just hype, but there is some underlying truth to that hype, even f the truth doesn't line up with certain claims regarding magical methodology. The interesting part is that some of the current methodology for getting the MOST out of 52100 when it comes to fine stable edges and crazy sharpness was devised while trying to debunk much of the hype surrounding the steel. A series of happy accidents that actually confirmed what the handful of guys using 52100 like Bob Kramer, the very famous maker of custom kitchen knives, apparently already knew.

No the toughness doesn't add anything. Razors are not subject to shearing force, impact or load. For a fine edge you need a crystalline structure that is as even and fine grained as possible.
White paper steel is very good stuff for razors, but so is 1095, or SC145 (which is even better than white paper steel) and O2 (which has almost nothing else but Manganese).

Using 52100 for a razor is like going to the grocery store down the street for a loaf of bread, in a hummer instead of a compact car.
It's not faster, it takes up more resources, and you have a hell of a time finding parking space. There is a good application for each type of steel. For 52100, razors are not it. For kitchen knives it is, because a kitchen knife edge is very fine, and subject to wiggling, impacts, and other bad things. But a 52100 sushi knife is just as pointless as a 52100 razor.

And again, unless a smith is regularly making razors, I really don't give 2cts of what steel they use or why or how famous they are.
Plenty of famous knifemakers I could name are experts in their own field and completely clueless when it comes to razors.
Which reminds me that I am still waiting to see your razors.

I have to agree with Bruno on this one. I'm just finishing a razor in 1095. It's the first time that I've not used 01. I have not honed it yet, so how I like it is yet to be seen, but I came to thinking that the Chromium and Tungsten carbides in the 01 were not helping the edge a bit and just creating an abrasion resistance that I was fighting through all of the post heat treat work and honing. As long as the steel takes a good edge and responds well to stropping, wear resistance is a negative IMO.