Thread: Newbie Information

I'm resurrecting this thread because we are sometimes missing out on a newbie's needs, for many reasons. Maybe they have asked a specific question and we only answer it without considering ancillary concerns that are exacerbating their problem or whatever. Anyway, here's what I propose with the stickies:

1. That the number of stickies per page be kept to a minimum in order not to clutter the pages. Ideally only one per page. Rather than have a sticky for stropping and another for shaving angles, have only one sticky that recommend using the Search function and suggesting the topics that are relevant. With all the information in the Permanent Archives and in the Forums' Threads, all that is needed in 90% of the cases is to tell people to go there and we sometimes even forget that.

2. That they be deleteable by the user, meaning that when the user has had a chance to read the sticky on a certain page enough time to get the information on it they can click on the 'close' or 'x' to delete for them forever, unless they want to bring it back.

and/or

3. That there be a primary function or control button that allows a user to "Turn Off Stickies" and "Turn On Stickies" whenever they need to. There should also be a "Replace All Stickies" and "Replace Stickies On This Page" in case somebody has removed stickies that they want to see again.


I can't think of anything else at the moment except that we should also talk about what belongs on the sticky for each page.

Comments? Suggestions?

X

IMO, a newbie section hurts newbies. Twofold. First, many new guys may hesitate to ask questions if it appears that "everything I need to know" is in one place. One stop shopping may not be the best. Second, once the new guys have gained some experience, they would miss out on passing their newly acquired knowledge to others. And, to go with that, I'll use myself as an example. I've been in the car business since 1984. I believe that I know what I am doing, but every so often, a new guy will have a light bulb go off and finally grasp something, and when they verbalize it...I benefit as well.

Or from one other way of looking at it, we could take the vast knowledge here and put it into numbered threads. If someone comes along and asks about hanging strops vs. paddle strops, the answer might be "see item 49". I think we loose our personality by making things too automated.

RT

I totally agree, which is why I think the few stickies that we would use should simply say something like; "Welcome to the Forums which are classified for your easy use. The Search function is a valuable method to find information. There is also accumulated information in the Help Files under Permanent Archives as well." and "This Forum page is about honing and stropping. Some common Search function topics are Pyramid, Paddle & Pastes." etc.

X

I would agree that a newbie section would take away from the spirit of these forums. After all there are no dumb questions only dumb answers. At the same time I do wish to tell some new member to not be shy or lazy and read some of the old posts. It's not like the shaving, honing and stropping information got out of date because it is a couple of months old.

I found an easier way is to do the search myself and provide them with a link to the old thread in the response instead of retyping the information. Hoping at the same time that they start searching on their own.

I love to help out but when I start sensing that someone is just being lazy and off loading the effort on me when they can do it themselves I kind of loose the motivation to help out. I am sure others feel the same way. After all, we are supposed to be gentlemen, not suckers or fools.

It is a delicate balance and I don't think it can be addressed by stickies or any other method. We just have to patiently and politely point these things out until new members get the message or leave because they get tired of hearing it.

I feel that any other approach would take away from the gentlemanly spirit of cooperation and willingness to help on these forums. At the same time making everyone feel welcome regardless of their poor attitude would also affect these forums in a negative way. For one it can start attracting every Tom, Dick and Harry looking for a freebie razor just by joining and proclaiming a need.

It would be a real loss either way. I don't see a choice but a direct, patient, hands on approach.

As a newbie, it's probably not surprising that I tend to agree with those who think a seperate forum is not the best solution. I certainly understand the dichotomy of the situation, but one of the things that has impressed me most while perusing the forums over that last couple of weeks is the genuine interest in helping one another.

Because the atmosphere of this community is so supportive, I have no fears of posting something that may be a silly question/observation.

Perhaps the way things will work out is that a natural balance will be created such that by the time the mth generation of gurus is tired of anserwing elementary questions, the members of the nth generation have become gurus capable of and eager to answer these questions. Maybe this is optimistic...or at least overly simplified.

While I know some newbies do join a community and simply start posting questions without researching the available information, I think many hang around without even registering until they have done the research and have learned the way of the boards by observing others. I think this may be especially true for this particular subject matter, where the people interested are seeking a methodology which requires patience and an appreciation of a job well done.

Who knows....just speaking what's on my mind.

Originally Posted by senorswiss

... While I know some newbies do join a community and simply start posting questions without researching the available information, I think many hang around without even registering until they have done the research and have learned the way of the boards by observing others. I think this may be especially true for this particular subject matter, where the people interested are seeking a methodology which requires patience and an appreciation of a job well done. ...

Welcome to the forums senorswiss (for lack of a real name).

Those that do their homework fit right in and if all did this then I doubt that this issue would even come up for discussion. If you take the time to learn the etiquete of interaction here by reading what is already available then you have respect and this is all it takes.

I do agree that we can't change the forums to address a few rogue new members. It is what kills other forums--the apparent arrogance of senior members and their disdain towards newbies. I know I would not have joined or participated had this been the case here.

I doubt that these changes would ever be implemented. They go against the grain of these forums and would be ineffective anyway. Those that are not afraid of effort find the information on their own. Those that are too lazy won't read a sign if you stuck in their face. So any attempts to address this "en masse" would be fruitless.

In my situation ( I still consider myself a newbie and will do for a long time I imagine ) I have no internet access at home although I do take my laptop home every evening after work .
I have downloaded the barber manuals pdf's , the vids from Brian and Lynn , Dr Moss's guide , Randy's pyramid suggestion pdf AFDavis11's honing run down , superflys animations etc ... I read through these often, some of of the info I don't grasp no matter how many times I read it and some of it I do ... So I come back to the group and ask questions on the particular query -sometimes just a simple response to my questions puts everything into place and other times even a detailed breakdown still doesn't reap any rewards and I still have a blank look about me -- the fact is someone who at some point in there life was also a newbie has taken the time and personally answered my question always leaves a lasting impression with me a) it's good to be associated with such a group .
b) They no doubt at some point had to ask the same question and possibly thought the same thing , the fact you guys are here answering proves no matter how confusing or technically impossible it seems it can be done
cheers ......

You know every time a read a post I learn something, even if its what not to do. As was said earlier "No dumb questions only dumb answers"
I'm flexible.

I think the biggest Newbie questions IMHO are related to Razor sharpening and I know personally what I'd love to see - is the master (Lynn ) doing a short guide like his shaving video on sharpening, maybe like Bill's restoration cd .. I know I wouldn't hesitate purchasing a copy . It's not that easy for folk across the pond like myself to send a razor over for sharpening ... I tell you I would every time tho if money was no object - even with an instructional whatever from Lynn , I doubt many will ever come as close to achieving the edge he does ...
On that thought .. I shall head home , the working day is done over here

One way to consolidate info is to clutter 1 super thread rather than split all the info into a bunch of other threads that clutter the forums instead. I've seen this done on other forums for different topics a lot and it's nice for an information source. The general layouts are the same

1 thread, first post is usually something small explaining the purpose, then you have x number of placeholder posts to cover x number of topics. So one post for straight razor bascis, another for stropping, another for honing etc.

Then for ea. post if someone wants to write up a brief definative piece you have that there as a basic faq then after that in the same post a list of links to other posts that are known to be great sources of info.

The forums need to be set up to not delete old posts or the really good ones have to get moved to somewhere where they can be linked to but will never get deleted.