Thread: Lemmings

Vlad, I have no idea what your talking about . . .















. . . and its a low grit honing method to maintain striational cutting ability.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I usually listen to the advice of the guy ahead of me, try what he says and then decide if it works. Then it'll become part of my tool kit. The biggest problem I've found isn't the advice but the narrative. Some guys give more descriptive info or a better description.

The only parts that have bothered me were pressure related. Most guys on here talk about "pressure" with the word "light" associated with it EVERY single time. It took me forever to get a good shave with that advice. Its not wrong, just incomplete. When I studied the barbers manual and the term "light" isn't in the book even once it felt wierd, sortof of like betrayal or something. To this day I get my best shaves when I follow the advice in the barbers manual and blow off everything said on here about pressure. The ideas aren't contradictory, just different descriptive words for the same ideas. To hone, use either twice the wieght of the blade or just the wieght of the blade, THATS NOT LIGHT. To strop, use enough pressure to feel a draw, THATS NOT LIGHT EITHER.

I'm still convinced not one of you knows how to strop correctly. :-)

So, yea, I've had atleast one period when I had my best improvement when I stopped listening and just learned it for myself. And even the videos are useless, since you can't tell what someone is doing, feeling, or thinking and replicating the action is usually way bad "advice"

OK, I might as well mention it here...

Couple of days ago, I met a guy, Dimitrija, metal ingeneer, who is using a straight on himself for 25 years. I was amased (he was too), that I have found someone with same interest and passion for this topic in my own town. The only diference between us (other than 24 years of "straight" shaving) was that he hadn't SRP to teach him how to shave. Instead, he used info from old barbers that were still around in the 80's. So, given that diference between us, and his equipement, here is his method of shaving:

He (Dimitrija) has 4 razors, two of wich are Henkells Friodurs, stainless steel. The story about them is when he asked the barbers what are the best razors that he can get, the answer was "get the Twins". So Zwillings it was. To this day he said they were the best shaving razors he tryed... I agree, my Henkells is giving me the the same best shaves out of the 7 razors I use...

He has one hanging strop, very similar to DOVO's and two pastes. Now, hear this: The strop is pasted all the time with Red paste (applyed 2 a year) and he is using that daily. He brought another paste, still wrapped, and I mentioned, "If you got them from the same place, this one must be the black one". We opened it, and it was. He had no idea about it. So, he might as well be using the Black paste every shave for 25 years... I asked him about the stropping technique, and he was wiling to show me... Another surprice. He slapped the razor on the strop, and i mean, SLAPPED. Pow, and he was going forward, and back, with fair pressure, and slacked strop. Said, that is the point when stropping, to slightly arch the edge. Before every stropping session, a small amount of wet lather is applyed, to create drag on the strop...

And finaly, the hone is thin (1 inch or so) stripe of, ofcourse, the Belgian coticule, both Yellow and Blue, natural bond. Dimitrija hones the razors maybe once a year, with circular motion. Said that is the method the finest machine blades are honed...

Now, I know this method is against all "rules" of straight shaving posted here, but the man had, what looked like the smoothest face among all gents his age I know, and he swears that, like myself, he enjoys every single shave he has...

Nenad.

p.s. I can't wait to bring my razors to his place and try that Belgian stone, Thanx Dimitrija...

Nenad,
Thia may be the most valuable post I have read on SRP.

I get calls weekly from customers and prospective customers agonizing over ever detail of how to use their equipment. They are worried they may vary from the gospel and make a mistake. They seem convinced there is one way and there is no other. They need to follow the group to the letter. There are many paths and Nenad's post points out.

When I first started years ago I knew nothing and got nowhere. 8 years later when I tried again I called Classic and Ray explained pasted strops and abrasives. I bought a cheap Illinois 206, a 2 sided paddle, TI paste and 0.5 Amplex. A called again when they arived got a little instruction and went from there. I quickly figured what worked for me and what didn't.......it was not always what was suggested here. Some ideas sounded great but didn't work...for me. Some ideas sounded bad and worked well. After a while I started to follow my own path based in part on what I read and in part on what just seemed to make sense.

Some guys will tell you a hone is difficult to learn on other pick it up first time. Other will tell you a pasted strop will ruin and edge, other swear by it.
I was told what makes a good strop and that there is no other material that will work......Russian leather, Horsehide, etc..... I went with something totally different because I simply thought about whaat made the other suggestions work and picked a new material with similar or better properties. Some guys use carboard, paper, blue jeans or their hand. They went with what made sense to them, maybe beaed on their own thoughts or maybe spurred on by something they read.

Lemmings? Maybe, but I think the best path is to look around to see that to some extent we are all lemmings but we don't all need to run into the sea. Some will leap, some will climb down slowly other will run like hell in a new direction.........those are the guys (lemmings) I want to watch.

Tony

I've been thinking about the cutting pastes on a hanging strop and that floppy stropping talked about. What I imagine is that they are actually going for the rounded bevel as a more comfortable shave. Din't know if this IS the case but it makes sense. Also might explain why such an aggressive slap is used on the strop. If this is so, then when the razor does need honing it would require the more aggressive circular motion to remove enough metal and not spend all day doing it.

X

Yea, that is exciting. A lot to think about. I'm going to try all this stuff and see what I think before I comment, though: I'm convinced this guys approach is better then mine already, and two, this is my anti-lemming tool. I try stuff first and see what I think. I have found so much on here that just doesn't quite make sense to me. The whole idea of stropping isn't completely clear what its real focus should be. I'm convinced there is more to it than I understand.

First, just for now, let me say the whole lather the leather up before stropping to create more draw doesn't work for me at all. I've already tried it. It creates more of a glass slide. But I'm going to retry it. Remove all the tallow and conditioners designed to create draw and use lather. I'm also going to try rounding and circular honing. As you all know I already use pressure, more so than all the rest of you but I think this guys approach isn't really about pressure and I don't think slapping the leather is really important either (but maybe I'll try it). I think the key is the rounding of the edge. I've done this before, posted about it, and didn't receive much negative feedback. Usually a good sign. LOL.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

First, just for now, let me say the whole lather the leather up before stropping to create more draw doesn't work for me at all. I've already tried it. It creates more of a glass slide. But I'm going to retry it. Remove all the tallow and conditioners designed to create draw and use lather.

The strop was very, let's say, "oily" to the touch, with that soapy residue, and the embossed leathers that says Juchten Leather were almost totaly unreadable and smeared. The strop was bought new somewere around '96... b.t.w, he saw Tony's number one strop, and said it was the best strop he's ever seen! He couldn't took his eyes off of it. Bravo, Tony.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I don't think slapping the leather is really important either (but maybe I'll try it).

This (the SLAP) was executed only once, to show me that I don't have to fear the razor, after my question about amount of pressure on the strop. He hit the strop from distance of maybe 20 inches realy hard, and as I was slowly opening my eyes in disbelief, waiting to see the razor in pieces, he was already going up and down the strop...

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'm also going to try rounding and circular honing. As you all know I already use pressure, more so than all the rest of you but I think this guys approach isn't really about pressure...

I have no idea about the pressure on the hone, and the amount of laps (read circles) but I will ask the next time I see him, and also ask him to hone one of my razors... Anyways, he said he never used the blue side, it looks to coarse...

Nenad

Thanx, I was referring to strop pressure. I'd like to know about hone pressure too. So far (not that I"m really excited or anything) I have in fact replicated using the lather to create more draw. I had to remove and clean all the remaining tallows and conditioners. Ended up with a very smooth glass like draw. Applied lather, very thick and with as little water as possible and it was very slippery, UNTIL IT DRIED UP COMPLETELY. And then blam, lots of nice draw. Really worked well.

I'm using a stainless steel razor to be more accurate here. I applied some .5 Amplex to a TM strop. Jezzus that was hard to do. Sorry Tony. Do you remember the grit of the paste he uses? Its that .5 stuff from TI? Or is it a more aggressive grit. I have lots of grited pastes but not that one.

I used the circular motion honing. I've always felt any angle is fine as long as you don't go perpendicular down the hone, so circular isn't outrageous to me. I already have the razor passing the hanging hair test. It was easy. I used a 12,000K Jap hone. I don't have any Belgians around.

Also, I need to ask for clarity. He has one strop but he keeps one strop covered with paste and one strop he adds lather to? That makes either two strops or one very messy red lathery strop. Can you clarify Nenad? Does he run his blade over pasted strop everyday? And he also lets it sag as well?

Only one strop, always pasted with red paste. I have no idea what make red paste it is, but my guess is standard red from DOVO. The paste is applyed once every 5 or so months, very little, and the strop is looking the right, leathery color to me, like you would aply the standard yellow to it, slightly darker, not as dark as Tony's red latigo, but with more waxy, that's the word, feel...

The strop is sagging maybe two inches in the middle...

I am glad you are getting some results here... I also gave the link to SRP to Dimitrija, and a CD with 600 megs of straight razor info. He might chime in here also...

Nenad

I seem to remember many years ago when I used to go to a real barbershop for a haircut. They still used straights to give shaves and used them to do your sideburns after a haircut and before starting the barber always stropped the razor on the strop hanging on the side of the chair and I clearly remember the barber used that slapping motion and used major pressure on the strop. We're talking about 50 years ago but I remember it well.