Thread: Clarification - Kamisori Razors

Originally Posted by FUD

Correction It's being marketed as a $100.00 razor that's ONSALE at $80.00 with SOME retailers buying bulk and offering "even better deals", quotes intended.

Good point FUD. That makes my $537.89 shaving sets, on sale now for $129.95 look like an "even better deal" too <g>.

From Bill's review it looks like a fine $60 razor.

Tony

Hello everyone, I just wanted to say I am still waiting for the feedback from Lyn and randy on Kamisori razors that was sent, so please lets hear your thoughts.

Thanks
Amy
http://www.kamisorishears.com

I would love to hear more as well. Perhaps the reviewers could post many more detailed photos as well? To me, asthetics is as important as usability.

Well, I finally got the Kamasori 150 razor honed and shave tested.
First impression:
1. I like the color scheme, black on the shank and on the spine along with black graphics on the face of the blade.
2. I like the grind of the blade. It is a heavy grind for a 5/8ths razor. It appears to be a full hollow but with some meat to it.
3. The finish on the blade is a little coarse. So much so that whatever "ink" was used for the blade graphics can be seen in the grinding lines that were not polished out.
4 Black plastic scales were standard stuff and the fit and finish of the pins and wedge were passable. Grade of "C".

Honing:
1. Using a 30X microscope I examined the edge. I was surprised to see that the bevel did NOT! extend all the way to the edge and what little bevel there was seemed very coarsly ground.
I proceded to hone the razor for 20 laps on a Norton 4000 and then examined the bevel again. Much to my surprise there was a 3RD! bevel!
Next I taped the spine and proceeded to hone the razor until a new bevel was formed. This was quite an undertaking. I had to go back to a 320 grit sandpaper to start the bevel then on to a 400 grit diamond hone and from there to a 4000 grit Norton.
The edge had a tendency to frequently form small microchips.
I eventually got the razor up to a shaving grade but it took quite a bit of time. The other major flaw was that the bevel was not uniform along the entire length of the edge. Where it would be fat on one side then on the opposite side it would be skinny. This indicates that there was either a slight warp in the blade or/and the spine was not evenly ground.

Shave test:
Despite having put in a substantial amount of time honing this razor it was still rather dull. It was a nice stiff blade but was a bit rough. I shaved the right side of my face with this razor and the left side with a 7/8 TI Silver Steel.
The TI won hands down.

Conclusion:
I cannot recommend this razor to anyone because of the poor grinding of the blade.

Isn't the comparison between a TI SS and that blade a bit uneven?

Still, the price is definately too high for me since there are so many cheap secondhand blades out there that are really good.
I figure that if you want to be a new player in the razormarket. You'd have to either drop prices a lot to compete OR improove quality past the current standard.

I am drawing a couple of conclusions from what I heard so far:

1) They definately did NOT contract their razors out to Dovo.
2) Honing the Satinedge and replacing the warped scales with SS Dovos that I'm beginning to like again cost less (for the blade/scales/hardware), took less time and produced better results.
3) If the blade is chipping easily, then we may have some problem with the steel itself. Maybe the hardening process?

Bill would be your best bet for recommendations in that department.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

3) If the blade is chipping easily, then we may have some problem with the steel itself. Maybe the hardening process?

This is a bit off topic but I'm curious now.

How much does the hardening process versus the milling process (i.e. ingredients, firing off impurities, etc.) affect microchipping?

I've always been of the impression, coming from a steel mining/milling area, that the quality of the steel, combined with how it's processed in the furnaces and molds/presses had more to do with the metals ability to hold form than the hardening process.

Is this innacurate?

well sir, I do appreciate your feedback and I will take it for what it is.
however your conclusion seems to be very blunt by not recommending the razor without looking at other aspects and I just wish you had compared the Kamisori 150 razor to one that is more comparable and in the same price range:

cost of TI Silver steel 7/8 Razor: $159.95
cost of KAMISORI 150 razor: $49.95 on ebay and $59.95 through our website



Amy
http://www.kamisorishears.com

Amy,
First off, I don't think he was comparing the Kamisori to the TI overall, so much as saying the TI is a much better shaver. Granted, the higher price on the TI should result in a more polished, decorative razor, but you should be able to still get a good shave from a razor at your price point. Blunt is good...I don't know how you can say "the blade is warped, and poorly ground" any other way. In fairness, from what I understand, yours isn't the only one emanating from Dovo with the same problems.

<<well sir, I do appreciate your feedback and I will take it for what it is.
however your conclusion seems to be very blunt by not recommending the razor without looking at other aspects and I just wish you had compared the Kamisori 150 razor to one that is more comparable and in the same price range:>>

I'm not really sure I understand this. Do you want an honest evaluation of your product, or do you want the reviewers to cherry pick the good things about it and fail to report the bad? As a part-time custom knifemaker, I have sent my product out to be reviewed by impartial persons (on BladeForum). I take the criticism and praise received to make a better product, not to insist my knives be compared to something more equal. I'd rather have them compared to something superior, because my goal is not to measure up to a mediocre product, but to measure up to a great one.


FUD,
Heat treating is the single most important determiner in the performance of the steel. How it's worked (forged, ground, milled, etc.) is important, but the thermal cycles it's subjected to are the ultimate goal. A bad steel with great heat treating is better than a great steel with substandard. The fact that the blade was slightly warped could be caused by two things: 1) Poor grinding after hardening, or 2) grinding the blade too thin before quenching. I lean toward #2, simply because of the performance of the steel. When a steel microchips as Randy describes, it's probably too soft, which means there is a possibility that the heat treaters burned the carbon out of the edge while heating/quenching, and it wont get as hard as it should. A blade has to be brought to its highest hardness, then tempered back, to obtain the best qualities of the steel. There's a possibility it's too hard, but given the way the blade performed, I'd say no. A third possiblity (and maybe the most likely) is that the blade was overheated prior to quenching. This will let you quench and temper the blade, but it causes the grain of the steel to enlarge, giving you a hard blade, but with no strength, and subject to chipping, as Randy described. I'm glad the blades got sent to a trio of true honemeisters, because then we can be sure the results aren't the result of bad honing technique. It sounds like they're just so-so razors, and definitely not worth the price of admission.

I wonder if this is all news to Kamisori, and they are just now finding out that they are getting 'seconds' or castaways from Dovo at a discount price?