Thread: Apache Black Gila

I may have it right again, need to see. Dropped back down to 600 for several sheets and the surface got way more cohesive. I think I jumped grits too fast coming off the sic and didn't quite delete that sort of shot peen effect the sic gives. I moved up to dulled 1. It's matte head on yet very reflective at an angle the way it was when I got it, so fingers crossed...

All may be well again. The feel is certainly closer to what it was initially, but across the whole rock which is what I wanted in the first place. I wasn't going to test this today but I have a wester steel king I got thrown in with a paddle coti I bought. Had some horrible pitting at the toe and the person who originally honed it did something where there was a tiny frown/wave right in front of the stabilizer, yet they somehow went into that as well. Basically, there was a pronounced frown the size of like 1/4 of a lentil right in front of the stabilizer so the point of the heel was drooping beneath the edge there in a pronounced spike. Don't ask... I always wonder when I see blades honed to major frowns why they did not stop and try to compute why that was happening, but people are dense I guess... I ground it into a more normal shape with a shapton 500 before going to 1k, the bbw side of a new coti I have slurry to water (one of the few truly good bbw I have encountered fwiw), the coti side lighter slurry to water, and then since I figure I am going to have to redo this after the first shave as I am convinced the toe is going to microchip on me from collateral oxidation, I fed it to the gila. Kill two birds with one stone that way. I did film it best I could. I don't have a tripod, one has been on order form asia forever but it never seems to arrive. BTW, yes, I am aware which way is the safe way to flip a blade on a hone, but it's a bad habit that got very natural finishing a lot of blades under a running tap with cotis in a claustrophobic sink with no room. Better to ding a spine than an edge I say. Anyway, I do some hht off the stone and make my arm slightly less hairy. Mostly, the video is boring. I won't know if I have this solved till I shave. I have stropped it since I shot this, at least it didn't chip on the strop..

https://youtu.be/CcAEmpC5g8I

Here's something new, a good experience that went south, unfortunately. Personally, I would try lapping through a crystalline issue since it appears to have been a testing/proving ground stone anyway. Thanks for adding to the info pile.

Originally Posted by kcb5150

I may have it right again, need to see. Dropped back down to 600 for several sheets and the surface got way more cohesive. I think I jumped grits too fast coming off the sic and didn't quite delete that sort of shot peen effect the sic gives. I moved up to dulled 1. It's matte head on yet very reflective at an angle the way it was when I got it, so fingers crossed...

I used to live in a walk up on 85th and 3rd that looked a lot like the one outside your window but then again so many look like that. One day I may bother you to try out that hone

I'm downtown actually. I don't have to deal with the extreme noise of living in the constant construction site that is developer friendly nyc as it is all landmarked, but I have to deal with the almost as bad constant noise of drunk ppl. There are like 4 or 5 of the things here in the city afaik.

Hehe I had a buddy of mine who used to live across from the Fulton fish market and moved into one of those restored buildings when they started renovating the are around south street seaport. If you think drunks were bad in the east village lets say how about having to deal with fish deliveries at 4 Am with a bunch of screaming fish mongers lol. I miss NYC lived in Brooklyn and Manhattan for like 15 years then got married and moved to the Burbs definitely not as much fun. Nice work researching the Gila a good effort. thanks

I'm in the west. I'm glad I am not in the east. It's all drunks, construction, and tenant abuse.

Originally Posted by kcb5150

Here's something new, a good experience that went south, unfortunately. Personally, I would try lapping through a crystalline issue since it appears to have been a testing/proving ground stone anyway. Thanks for adding to the info pile.

I had some slightly similar issues if you recall. What seems to remove the issue for me is to clean the stone with a Strata nagura before use. That got rid of all grittiness (which I thought was coming from contamination, not the stone itself). I just honed four razors on the Shapton Pro 1.5k, Apache Red, Strata, and Gila. Running the edges of all three razors (three redone Gold Dollars, one custom in 63HRC AISI W2) up the inside of my arm, and over the back of my hand...says they're perfect. Sharp, but ultra smooth. Took less than 20 minutes per razor, and honestly...if going by 'feel'...I could probably have skipped either of the middle stones and got the same result. I just love them to much not to use them I guess, lol.

For me, I'm happy.

IDK if that example also has the little glassy dots mine has, but when you are at a point where they are extremely thin sic seems to fracture them rather than just abrade and they give off debris. I think this is a different issue though, that seems to have a toxic crystalline vein running almost at a right angle to the plane. It's odd that it didn't ding the blade from the get go being so hard. The tiny little rice shaped pit can be lapped through as I lapped through, that vein idk, but it is well worth exploring because crystalline stuff comes and goes it seems. It wasn't like a toxic slate where it just seems to have a whole seam within the stone if it is there. Apart from that, I'd say if he does find a good surface in there to leave it alone. Playing with it just creates headaches. At least he was finding the same qualities otherwise

Originally Posted by kcb5150

IDK if that example also has the little glassy dots mine has, but when you are at a point where they are extremely thin sic seems to fracture them rather than just abrade and they give off debris. I think this is a different issue though, that seems to have a toxic crystalline vein running almost at a right angle to the plane. It's odd that it didn't ding the blade from the get go being so hard. The tiny little rice shaped pit can be lapped through as I lapped through, that vein idk, but it is well worth exploring because crystalline stuff comes and goes it seems. It wasn't like a toxic slate where it just seems to have a whole seam within the stone if it is there. Apart from that, I'd say if he does find a good surface in there to leave it alone. Playing with it just creates headaches. At least he was finding the same qualities otherwise

I agree. I had the 'gritty' feel a few times, but like I said, 'wiping' the stone with another smooth, high grit stone (scrubbing with another stone works...I've used both of my C12k, both of my Red's, and the Strata and Strata nagura I have) seemed to completely resolve the problem. Perhaps doing so has pulled any 'loose' crystalline pieces out to the point where there are no more that are loose enough to cause a problem? I don't know. Mine were never bad enough that they chipped the edge to a point where it was visible at 500x...so maybe it was actually just loose abrasive from prior grits like I initially thought.