Thread: Suehiro Gokumyo hones 10k, 15k, 20k. Update.

Originally Posted by gabrielcr78

SO. at the ends, before I start saving my pennies in a piggy bank to save up the 300$ this SG 20k, just have a final question...
is this still the best synthetic stone in the market?

notice I said synthetic to rule out the controversy form the naturasl, I'm absolutely sure that there are many better naturals ..but in this stage of my early learning and development of honing, I'm not yet ready to deal with all the variables of naturals, so i'm willing to sacrifice some of the 5% difference of the ultimate edge from naturals for having consistency at the reach of my non honemeister (actually newbie honer) hands...

so, synthetics, is this the best one i can get?

thanks!

Gabe

If you like naturals, go that route. I still think this is the best stone out there, synthetic or natural. I posted a year ago that I have not considered anything else and I still haven't. It's still all I expect to ever need.

Originally Posted by gabrielcr78

SO. at the ends, before I start saving my pennies in a piggy bank to save up the 300$ this SG 20k, just have a final question...
is this still the best synthetic stone in the market?

notice I said synthetic to rule out the controversy form the naturasl, I'm absolutely sure that there are many better naturals ..but in this stage of my early learning and development of honing, I'm not yet ready to deal with all the variables of naturals, so i'm willing to sacrifice some of the 5% difference of the ultimate edge from naturals for having consistency at the reach of my non honemeister (actually newbie honer) hands...

so, synthetics, is this the best one i can get?

thanks!

Gabe

Going to quote Utopian from the first page:

Originally Posted by Utopian

And THAT is all that you need to do!

Seriously, a 12k SuperStone or a coticule used correctly can give you a fantastic shave! The difference between the edge off of either of these hones and a Gokumyo 20k is about $200. Now just see if you can feel that $200 on your face.

(disclaimer: The 20k CAN improve the edge, but in reality it is a minor improvement. Get the d@mn bevel set properly and the odds are good that anything else that you do with the edge after that will give you at least a decent shave.)

So the first question is, do you have other hones? And in addition, do you already have skill honing a straight razor? If the answer to both of those is yes, and you're just looking to add the best finisher you can humanly possibly get, then by all means don't let me stop you.

But if you've no hones, and no skill honing a straight razor, I might recommend a Naniwa 10K or 12K to start with. Maybe even an 8K, for the simple fact that if you can not get a good, comfortable shave off an 8k edge then polishing the steel any higher is truly pointless.

To snag another quote:

"No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
Very Respectfully - Glen

Don't fall into the trap of thinking a $300 or $400 stone is gonna be a magic bullet to an amazing edge. Plenty of people shave happily with an edge provided by a barber hone they found at an antique store for 5 bucks. Honestly it's more important that you have the skill to hone a razor than any specific stone.

Agreed.
For someone that has not played with many hones, I strongly would suggest that you consider the Naniwa Specialty 12k. It can create great edges and is significantly cheaper than the Gok 20k.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Agreed.
For someone that has not played with many hones, I strongly would suggest that you consider the Naniwa Specialty 12k. It can create great edges and is significantly cheaper than the Gok 20k.

thanks you all folks for the help and the responses!, forgot to give you my current progression for background...
currenty i have:

1x norton combo 220/1k
1x Norton combo 4K/8k
1x naniwa SS 12k

and my progression is (unless i really need th 1k for a nick or something): Norton 4K -> Norton 8K -> Naniwa SS 12K and then stropping on cotton with CrOx, then 100% linen hose strop, then latigo leather adn then a finer leather (soon to be Kangoroo).

Despite I've only started hoing / shaving with SRs about 3 months, i feel like I'm happy enough with the edges i'm producing and my shaves have improved a LOT since the first ones... but i know there's still a lot of room to improve...

now, like said, i'm thinking on starting saving my pennies on the piggy bank for this.. (this was a literal meaning) i'll separate like.. 10-15$ a month to buy (eventually) my next hone.. so i'm months away from putting the order, but i think it¿s better for saving w2hen you know what you want to buy with the money you're saving

the next 8 months or so(My bday is in august) i still have to keep working on improving my honing skills (yeah i know i have a long road to walk), and honing more razors of the ones I've purchased for learning restore/improve in ebay...
but i asked on the best spirit of starting to think what i want to do when i'm a big guy like y'all

then, i thought.. well maybe i save time in some stropping with CrOx and can put an edge for saving straight from the stone if i add a SG20k aftr my Naniwa SS12k...

i know, you can get to shave after the Naniwa directly (now crox) but maybe it's just that i'm not there yet in the required skillset

OK, that sounds great. By the time you have the money saved up you MIGHT be at a point at which you might find an improvement from the 20k. I made the mistake of thinking I could buy my way to better edges but if you are going nice and slow as you have described then you should do just fine without wasting money.

Originally Posted by Utopian

OK, that sounds great. By the time you have the money saved up you MIGHT be at a point at which you might find an improvement from the 20k. I made the mistake of thinking I could buy my way to better edges but if you are going nice and slow as you have described then you should do just fine without wasting money.

Thanks utopian, One quick question on top of this is sbout which lapping stone i should buy. As you know, i only have few stones 2 norton combos and the naniwa. Did not mention about 10 barber hones ( 1 gem ,2 swatys, 3 back cushioned strop americans, and 4 others) that i need to lap. These have been more of an unexpected purchase... anyway...

I have neen lapping in a piece of glass with W/D... sand paper, which so far was ok (even when sandpaper is not that cheap here, since its imported)... but thinking that:
1. Im practicing a lot.. and possibly i will hone at sone point offer honing servoces here in my country.
2. I will eventually buy the SG 20k
3. I dont want to destroy an extremelly expensive diamond plate with the barber hones
4. I dont want to buy too cheap bad quality sonce i have to pay intl shipping and taxes, so i preffer to do one single.good investment that saves me money on yhe LONG run...

I was reading a very interesting (although a bit outdated) post from you that states a double sided diamond stone should do the trick not only for lapping all stones (including the12k and 20k) but also help on some razor restoration with special needs....

What would be you recomendation?

300/1000 or 400/ 1200? Which brand? Anything i can buy for ebay or should buy somewhere else?

I hope i'm not abusing your good will on helping me, and if i'm out of place please lt me know if i should PM you..
Thanks all for your patience!!
Gabe

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The easiest way to avoid destroying your expensive diamond plate on barber hones is to NEVER lap a barber hone. The added advantage is that your barber hones will perform better if you do NOT lap them. Barber hones have large grit but cut like a more fine hone because they are burnished. If you lap them the hone becomes more coarse. Unless your barber hone is damaged, lapping is not helpful.

I had a Trend plate that was a combo 300/1000. It did not make it home after a meet-up but it worked great. Then again, it was about a hundred dollars. Chef Knives To Go has a plate that is 400/1000 that appears to be quite similar and is about $30. That is probably a great option either for lapping or restoration.

The DMT8C 325 grit is an awesome workhorse as long as you don't abuse it. DMT did not design it to be a lapping plate but it will work as one for synthetic water hones. It also can be used for restoration work.

For razor restoration the Atomas cannot be beat. I ONLY use mine for that purpose and never have used them for lapping so I cannot make any judgement on them for that purpose but I would assume they are fine for that. The reason that I highly recommend the Atomas for restoration is that they have pristinely uniform diamond clusters all of the same height. The result is a very uniform scratch pattern that requires MUCH less 1k work to clean up after the diamond plate.

In summary, I would say for the average honer with a relatively low number of hones needing a diamond plate for lapping, refreshing, and edge restoration, I would recommend the CKTG 400/1000k first and the DMT8C second.

If this did not address all your questions please feel free to say so and I'll say more!

HERE is a thread I did a while ago expounding on my diamond plates.

Got it...
Now, CKTG 400/1000 seems like a great deal.for the 35$ they ask they are chargon on their website... however, it's 8"x2.75"... Nortons are 8"x3"... wouldn't the fact that the diamond plate is smaller tjan the actual stone affect the lapping?
Also, what grit of atoma do you reffer to?

Thanks again!!!

Originally Posted by Utopian

The easiest way to avoid destroying your expensive diamond plate on barber hones is to NEVER lap a barber hone. The added advantage is that your barber hones will perform better if you do NOT lap them. Barber hones have large grit but cut like a more fine hone because they are burnished. If you lap them the hone becomes more coarse. Unless your barber hone is damaged, lapping is not helpful.

I had a Trend plate that was a combo 300/1000. It did not make it home after a meet-up but it worked great. Then again, it was about a hundred dollars. Chef Knives To Go has a plate that is 400/1000 that appears to be quite similar and is about $30. That is probably a great option either for lapping or restoration.

The DMT8C 325 grit is an awesome workhorse as long as you don't abuse it. DMT did not design it to be a lapping plate but it will work as one for synthetic water hones. It also can be used for restoration work.

For razor restoration the Atomas cannot be beat. I ONLY use mine for that purpose and never have used them for lapping so I cannot make any judgement on them for that purpose but I would assume they are fine for that. The reason that I highly recommend the Atomas for restoration is that they have pristinely uniform diamond clusters all of the same height. The result is a very uniform scratch pattern that requires MUCH less 1k work to clean up after the diamond plate.

In summary, I would say for the average honer with a relatively low number of hones needing a diamond plate for lapping, refreshing, and edge restoration, I would recommend the CKTG 400/1000k first and the DMT8C second.

If this did not address all your questions please feel free to say so and I'll say more!

HERE is a thread I did a while ago expounding on my diamond plates.

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Originally Posted by gabrielcr78

Got it...
Now, CKTG 400/1000 seems like a great deal.for the 35$ they ask they are chargon on their website... however, it's 8"x2.75"... Nortons are 8"x3"... wouldn't the fact that the diamond plate is smaller tjan the actual stone affect the lapping?
Also, what grit of atoma do you reffer to?

Thanks again!!!



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The plate is large enough that it is going to maintain flat contact with the hone. It is not a problem.

I have the 160, 400, and 1200 Atomas. The only thing I hone on the 160 is machetes. (Yeah, for me, that is a regular thing.) The 400 is my go-to plate for chip removal when the chip is deeper than the bevel of the razor. The 1200 is used for smaller chips and for follow-up after the 400 when the chip is nearly gone.

As to the SG20K. My view remains that it stays as the best synthetic finishing stone available. As to the 10k and 15k Suehiro Gokumyo stones, I sold them both, I found they really had no use for me. I go straight from a Naniwa 10k Superstone to the SG20k and have no issues at all. In fact you can likely go straight from the 8K superstone with ease. If I had my time over would I still buy the SG20k? Definitely, as it gives a terrific edge. Fast and repeatable. For you, if you are not happy with the shaves you get from your 12k Naniwa probably no point buying anything else. Cost wise, hindsight being what it is, you don't need both the Naniwa 12k and the SG20K. You can easily go from the 8k stone to the SG20k. However, if you did decide to add the SG20k to your line up, I don't think you'd regret it, it does have an 'X' factor to it, and is an easy stone to use, once you have given it a go. The only thing I could add is that it is an extremely durable stone. I have lapped it three or four times in it's life, and I just checked it and I still haven't taken any measureable amount off of it. It will outlast dozens of Naniwa 8k superstones (Speciality stones).