Thread: Shapton 16k, mixed grit??

That sentence is NOT saying that the 16K Shapton Glass hone is made from *mixed* grits (Baltic Hand Tools site). It is a typical computer translation (google style translation) of one language to another where grammar rules are different. As I don't speak the original language, I can't say for sure exactly what they are talking about, but I did live in Europe for 13 years and I know that German grammar puts words in a different order than English.

It looks like they are trying to make some point about progression from low grit to high grit, but I'm not quite sure what they are talking about.

Rest assured, Shapton uses a carefully graded grit in each hone... though I do recall reading that they have some glass hones made specifically for tougher steels, or perhaps it was for carbon steel tools?!?!? It would still be single grit, just a different material for the grit and perhaps a different binder.

From that Baltic Hand Tools site we have:

In blade sharpening tests there was nonoticeable difference in sharpness betweena jump 2000 to 16.000 (mixed grit) anda standard sharpening procedure.

As Utopian points out... ALWAYS go to the horses mouth, as in the Manufacturer.... Websites are not written by skilled woodworkers or razor honers, they are written by web designers and marketing departments. One can only hope a person with knowledge, took the time to read the web page, and in this case, I suspect it's simply a fast and dirty computer translation proof read by a native speaking craftsman who has a poor grasp of the foreign language. Dictum (the business) may have a solid reputation, but Dictum is just a name on a piece of paper used for creating a business entity, not an all knowing, all seeing super craftsman.

Anyone who has suffered through "Chinglish" manuals knows what I mean when I say "computer translation", which ranks right up there with "spell checking". You may have spelled the word "two" correctly, but when you meant "too", spell checking doesn't really help much.

Regards

Kaptain "Grammar grouch" Zero

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

As Utopian points out... ALWAYS go to the horses mouth, as in the Manufacturer.... Websites are not written by skilled woodworkers or razor honers, they are written by web designers and marketing departments. One can only hope a person with knowledge, took the time to read the web page, and in this case, I suspect it's simply a fast and dirty computer translation proof read by a native speaking craftsman who has a poor grasp of the foreign language. Dictum (the business) may have a solid reputation, but Dictum is just a name on a piece of paper used for creating a business entity, not an all knowing, all seeing super craftsman.

Anyone who has suffered through "Chinglish" manuals knows what I mean when I say "computer translation", which ranks right up there with "spell checking". You may have spelled the word "two" correctly, but when you meant "too", spell checking doesn't really help much.

Regards

Kaptain "Grammar grouch" Zero

Ain't that the truth though.

Bob

I've also been curious for a while why Dictum sells the 16k for less than the 10k and about their claim regarding the 16k being a 'mixed grit' stone:

- 8k = 90.70 euros
- 10k = 149 euros
- 16k = 113 euros

I purchased my 16k from them at the low price at least five years ago. I also have the 10k and my 16k achieves a better polish than the 10k, which you'd expect. The Dictum prices increase progressively as the grits increase for the 11 GS stones they sell from 220 to 30k - but the 16k is the only exception to their price progression. Strange but I'm not complaining because a) for me the performance is there and b) I love bargains!

Originally Posted by MichaelS

I've also been curious for a while why Dictum sells the 16k for less than the 10k and about their claim regarding the 16k being a 'mixed grit' stone:

- 8k = 90.70 euros
- 10k = 149 euros
- 16k = 113 euros

I purchased my 16k from them at the low price at least five years ago. I also have the 10k and my 16k achieves a better polish than the 10k, which you'd expect. The Dictum prices increase progressively as the grits increase for the 11 GS stones they sell from 220 to 30k - but the 16k is the only exception to their price progression. Strange but I'm not complaining because a) for me the performance is there and b) I love bargains!

The 10K was difficult to find for a time. Maybe low production, I don't know. It's also very popular. Supply and demand I suppose. They could charge more for the 10K and they did. Both are great hones.

Originally Posted by kelbro

The 10K was difficult to find for a time. Maybe low production, I don't know. It's also very popular. Supply and demand I suppose. They could charge more for the 10K and they did. Both are great hones.

Bet they'd sell more 16K hones if they had the proper information up there...if I were considering one and read that without knowing better, I'd probably reconsider the purchase.

Why is the 16K listed for less?

It could be any several things.... Overstocked, not selling as quickly as the others, perhaps they got a special volume deal on that particular hone and are passing it on to the customer or perhaps someone in the accounting dept. made a "whoopsie" and hit the wrong key. Remember, we are ONLY looking at Shapton hones here.... a mere microscopic portion of ALL THE ITEMS in DIctum's catalogue... It's not hard to see a typo slipping in..... Heck, *I* have to correct most of my posts 87 billion times AFTER I've proof read before posting.... or so it seems......<sigh>.

In a company the size of Dictum, I suspect you could take an entire years worth of Shapton hones sales and loose it off the books in accounting and nobody would notice... It's likely a very very tiny amount of their sales. Even guys like Lynn and Glen don't go through THAT many sets of Shapton hones. I'm sure they've worn out a few, but it's not like they are buying multiple sets every year. If they were, I think the cost of getting a razor honed would be a tad higher! <grin>

In 10 years, I have had so little wear on my hones I can honestly say they will last me my lifetime and then some... That's not a whole lot of sales to base a business like Dictum on.

Regards

Christian

I actually make all the Shapton hones for Shapton. I use a special blend of animal crackers and cement mix. I'd be happy to make you any custom Shapton for the low price of $29.99 + shipping and handling. Feel free to PM me with any and all of your Shapton needs.

I have had my 16K Shapton@ while I don't have a 2K. shapton I have several Wei Wei & King stones in that range & the 16K most surely leaves a better edge & more polished edge than the 2K hones I have. I have a 1K Shapton Pro that after flattening & a little burnishing is a great bevel setter.
I believe that they must have fewer 10K hones than the rest of them.
Slawman

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Why is the 16K listed for less?

I'm guessing that it's related to the asterisk that appears next to the 16k only. Are they factory seconds? Asterisk + pricing anomaly = something not quite right.

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Why is the 16K listed for less?

It could be any several things.... Overstocked, not selling as quickly as the others, perhaps they got a special volume deal on that particular hone and are passing it on to the customer or perhaps someone in the accounting dept. made a "whoopsie" and hit the wrong key. Remember, we are ONLY looking at Shapton hones here.... a mere microscopic portion of ALL THE ITEMS in DIctum's catalogue... It's not hard to see a typo slipping in..... Heck, *I* have to correct most of my posts 87 billion times AFTER I've proof read before posting.... or so it seems......<sigh>.

In a company the size of Dictum, I suspect you could take an entire years worth of Shapton hones sales and loose it off the books in accounting and nobody would notice... It's likely a very very tiny amount of their sales. Even guys like Lynn and Glen don't go through THAT many sets of Shapton hones. I'm sure they've worn out a few, but it's not like they are buying multiple sets every year. If they were, I think the cost of getting a razor honed would be a tad higher! <grin>

In 10 years, I have had so little wear on my hones I can honestly say they will last me my lifetime and then some... That's not a whole lot of sales to base a business like Dictum on.

Regards

Christian

Three mistakes in there, if you wish to do more editing!