Thread: Question About Being "Done" on an Arkie

Yup, a shot of Nano Grit Diamond or CBN on a hard Ark or Jnat will produce some interesting edges.

Well, I just test-shaved both of the aforementioned razors after a couple of sessions on baby oil. While both were noticeably smoother, the Torrey still seems a little scrapy, but then again I'm not sure my face likes true "full" hollow razors. This one is almost a singing blade, and those sometimes give me trouble.

I'll keep working on them in any event, and try them on some heavier grinds with my own similar lower-grit honing regimen soon to compare.

Oh, and I was checking out the diamond grit last night on other sites. When you said .05, did you mean .50, because that is what I kept finding? I've never used diamond pastes or sprays before (DMT's and Smith's knife hones don't count)-another rabbit hole.

Don’t know who you are asking, Nifty was talking about .25um quarter micron, CBN, about 60k grit.

Ken Schwartz does or did make a .050um Polycrystalline Diamond spray, 320,000 grit and I thought, Jende was carrying it, but I cannot find it on their site. They only carry down to .10um (160k grit) now.

Here is a link for it, they claim to have it in stock.

.050um Poly Diamond 320,000 grit, I have never dealt with them.

Ken was also making a .025 um, 640,000 grit and a .015um, 1,200,000 grit Poly Diamond spray. The .015um was selling for $350 for 2 ounces a few years (3-4) ago.

I have only used .50um and .25um Diamond, but prefer CBN for razors, I have CBN, in .50um, .25um .125um and .10um.

On stones, I use .50um (30k) and .25um, (60k), Diamond, for a nice finish, you don’t need much and are just finishing on diamond or CBN slurry.

.125um CBN (160,000) is ok, not all steels can handle it, but usually.50um (30K) or .25um CBN, (60k) is comfortable for me for stropping.

I use diamond sprays on knife edges occasionally, not on razors. A lot depends on your razor steel/grind and your skin and beard.

For me, I have calibrated an Arm-Hair test and HHT to know when I am done on my finisher. Not just pass-fail but how effortless vs how "grabby" for a lack of a better term. Then I shave test it. An Arkansas can really be taken to incredible heights in regards to the resulting edge. It is really hard to overdo it. I spend most of my time on the final finish which doesn't take long with a combination of "back n forth" strokes followed by X strokes. As for the feel on the stone, I haven't been able to use that reliably but as Marty said you really have to learn your own way and what works on your stone.

As for pressure, I use it as some use a slurry. Gradually reducing every set of strokes until I am down to weight of the blade X strokes.

You may want to cross check your stones capabilities against your translucent.

Thanks for the tips, Steel-I think LHT may have something with the idea of sitting down for an hour-long tv show and being "done" at the end of the show. That scrapy full-hollow Torrey finally smoothed out after about 4 15-ish minute sessions on oil over a period of a few days, followed by my usual stropping regimen and test-shave each time. And I'm definitely getting a gradual feel for the developing AHT and HHT's and how they relate too as the edge refines. So Arkies are definitely not for people who don't really enjoy honing, but then again I am slowly developing a sort of one-handed "windshield wiper" stroke on oil that is very repeatable, quite fast (but in a controlled way!), and enjoyable to do. But that stroke is completely unlike how I have ever honed before on any kind of stone.

You guys are all exactly right in that you have to learn what works for YOU on YOUR stone-very intimidating for guys who are new to naturals and come from a background of what I call "formula honing" (think Lynn's Pyramid many of us learned on). But that's exactly it-Keith on TomoNagura says that about his JNATs all the time-so true!

I am also slowly playing with the theory that an edge that is pretty much "there" off of synthetics might go a tad quicker on a couple hundred laps on water and dish soap (or runny lather). Maybe this is a little faster? Quick wash and dry, and really smooth it out on oil (which I am really enjoying honing on-strangely never really did it before much).

edit: I also was wondering just now (as I was knocking out another session on oil) is if I could really speed things up by starting on the flip side/rough side that I only finish-lapped to DMT 325?

And yes, I definitely plan to go back to the Trans (or Tranny in Kelbro speak) to see how they relate, if one can or should follow the other, etc. Very interesting journey so far! Aaron

That is a viable option to keep one side "prepped" or rough and use the finished side afterwards. An Arkansas that has been prepped with a DMT is surprisingly fast but lacks the ability, in my experience, to give a great finish so going from one side to the other is an option that works to both strengths.

I think, like with anything, as you gain experience with your stones it all becomes much easier and quicker. Thanks for your input and sharing your experience.

On stones, I use .50um (30k) and .25um, (60k), Diamond, for a nice finish, you don’t need much and are just finishing on diamond or CBN slurry.

Marty:
Can you tell me more about what stones you would be using the above noted Diamond and is this the Poly Diamond spray from Ken? I presume you would be using these same stones for the CBN, or would that be inaccurate?
Is there a thread that you outline this process?

Thanks
Frank

Originally Posted by Steel

That is a viable option to keep one side "prepped" or rough and use the finished side afterwards. An Arkansas that has been prepped with a DMT is surprisingly fast but lacks the ability, in my experience, to give a great finish so going from one side to the other is an option that works to both strengths.

I think, like with anything, as you gain experience with your stones it all becomes much easier and quicker. Thanks for your input and sharing your experience.

Agreed in full. I keep one side of all my natural stones burnished, and the other side roughed up a bit. Usually somewheres around 400 - 1K sand paper/DMT etc. I typically use the rough side to transition from the previous hone, any slurry work I may want to do with the hone, or if I want to do a quick touch up on just the Arkie I'll use the rough side before using the burnished side.

I do have Diamond sprays from Ken and other sprays and pastes from other sources that I have tried.

Mostly I use Ken’s CBN because I like the finish better over Diamond. It is not something I do every time, but if you are looking for a little extra, it can be an easy way to get there, especially with Arks that are slower to finish.

I use this technique on hard Arks, Black and Translucent, Coticules or Jnats. Finishing with a micro bevel with an additional layer of tape is another option, as is stropping on a Chrome Oxide or CBN pasted strop prior to the finishing stone, and or finishing laps, and after honing.

This has been mentioned in several threads but not one that is specific to it, that I recall.

Originally Posted by Marshal

Agreed in full. I keep one side of all my natural stones burnished, and the other side roughed up a bit. Usually somewheres around 400 - 1K sand paper/DMT etc. I typically use the rough side to transition from the previous hone, any slurry work I may want to do with the hone, or if I want to do a quick touch up on just the Arkie I'll use the rough side before using the burnished side.

Marshal-You were one of the enablers who got me all hyped up about burnishing my natural finishers in that thread around Christmas as I recall. I did my translucent and my PHIG-didn't hone enough then to draw any conclusions. I've got a lot more time to play around this summer-we'll see.