Thread: Question About Being "Done" on an Arkie

Okay, so I started on the Surgical Black mentioned in my other thread with two I had in my stable that were at least nominally shave-ready, but both full-hollows that can be kind of "scrapy" on my face. One is a Torrey, and the other is a George Butler "Shakespeare" razor.

I don't really count strokes any more, especially on naturals, but spent about 15 minutes on each razor on the prepped SB on water with a drop of dish soap, using a combination of back and forths, circles and x-strokes with moderate torque on the edge. Pretty quickly I started getting that "sticky" feeling with some squeak and a feeling that the blade wanted to dig in, almost exactly like the final strokes on a hard JNAT. I then lightened up and continued, refreshing the water and soap as needed to keep things gliding along, and it kept coming back on both blades, so I figured I'd finish with some ultra-light passes and quit while I was ahead (operating under the assumption that any real digging in of a blade into an ultra-hard ark surface would be disastrous!). I sealed the deal with 40 linen and 60 leather stropping strokes, and both passed the HHT all along a near-mirror bevel.

Do you Arkie experts get that stickiness, and is it a reliable measure of being done as on some other naturals? I don't recall getting this much on my 4x2 translucent (maybe because less of the blade is in contact with the hone at any given time?).

Another thing: although conventional wisdom from my extensive reading holds that arkies need hundreds of strokes and a lot of time to work their magic, I have read some others say that because of the unique nature of the stone, more pressure can be used than on, say, a Coti or other finishers, thus speeding things up considerably. This is what I was trying to achieve, and both edges "seem" to confirm that it worked. I'm also considering switching to oil in the theory that the extra cushion might allow for a hair more pressure, as I've seen on a couple of arkie honing videos.

For now, these are all just theories. I'd love some input into them from you experienced users re technique and being "done."

As I shaved this morning, I'll need to sprout some hair again before doing the real test.

Thanks in advance-Aaron

I prefer Smith's honing solution on my Black and Trans Arkies. You will sense how much torque/pressure is needed.

Norton's on the coarser Arkies.

I rely on what I see under the loupe. To me the sound is just metal vibrating across a poorly lubricated surface. Even with soap in the mix water's not a great lubricant. I dislike sticking and usually try to stop before it occurs. If it does, I know I should move on to the next phase or call it done if I'm on the last step.

How many strokes it takes is relative. Coming to a translucent stone from a Hard Arkie or an 8K I normally do about 200 strokes, half on water the other half on wet shave lather. I could probably get away with 50 to 75 strokes on each, but it's therapeutic so I don't mind the extra time spent. And it isn't much, maybe 5 to 6 minutes if I'm poking around. Or I could take it to the 12K stone, then do 25 to 30 on wet lather and be happy with the result.

With regard to pressure I treat them like any other finishing stone. Less is more. If I did my job on the previous stone polish should be fairly high, scratches minimal, and blade very close to ready. It might take a few more strokes than if I mixed pressure in, but I can live with that.

Yes, switch to mineral oil (baby oil). The stickiness probably coming from the soap starting to dry out. I agree with Marshall, 200 minimum strokes. For me it's a comfort thing. Hone in left hand, razor in right, settled in front to of TV, put on a favorite hour show, commence stroking, at end of show you're likely done.

Once you get some experience on your Black try going dry and wash stone after honing session. The lubricant is mainly to keep the swarf afloat and not embed into the stone. If you wash afterwards with Dawn, the swarf will all wash away.

So I tested those 2 hollow-grinds this evening, with mixed results (which you can take with a grain of salt as I'm a relatively inexperienced Arkie user working on a stone I'm still breaking in).

The George Butler "Shakespeare" razor that I worked on yesterday on water and dish soap was "okay" from all angles, though still a tiny bit scrapy. It had passed the HHT and was tree-topping leg hair all along the edge after honing and stropping last night, which just goes to show you. Will work on it some more.

For the Torrey, I did a little extra. After reading LHT's advice re mineral oil and watching some videos, I put 6 drops of lavender baby oil (hey-it's what I had, shut up!) on the surface and just started honing away. Again, I didn't count laps, but just kept going (I'm guessing for a few hundred laps) because it was so much smoother and more enjoyable letting the blade glide over the thin film of oil-it really just gave silky, almost greased bowling ball feedback. I Stropped again afterward (my usual 40/60 or so), and this one was noticeably smoother than the other.

I think I'm going to stick with baby oil for now and see how I do as the hone gets slicker and my technique improves. Thanks for the tips and encouragement! Aaron

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

So I tested those 2 hollow-grinds this evening, with mixed results
.....
I think I'm going to stick with baby oil for now and see how I do as the hone gets slicker and my technique improves. Thanks for the tips and encouragement! Aaron

I do not count myself an Arkie expert but based on the ones I have less is more.
Once you had an edge be gentle to recover it.

Any light oil can work from mineral oil to WD40.

I do not think of any Arkie as an abrasive for steel I think of it as a sheep's foot compactor that will both reshape and
even harden steel.

I thought I wrecked my Black after lapping it with a coarse DMT. It took a lot of
burnishing to calm the surface down, it remembered the coarse DMT and reminded
me over and over. I resorted to slurry from my Naniwas to speed up the burnishing
and finished with a spray of 0.25micron CBN.

I get nicer results with less effort from modern hones. Your rocks might be better than mine
so do not be discouraged.

The nice thing about a less is more approach is if it needs more you can give it more.
If you worried it too much you cannot undo the last 150 laps..

Try honing with the same gentle touch you shave with.

You will have to learn, your stone to get your best results, remember steel and grinds differ.

I too like Smith’s or Ballistol on a wet stone. I do go to an Ark, after an 8K Snow White or 12k Super Stone, with a very shallow stria bevel and super straight edge. Add oil or water a drop at a time as needed, you don’t need much.

Do X laps until you feel the edge is done. Strop the razor on linen and leather, 6-10 laps each and do 10-20 edge trailing strokes back on the stone with light pressure.

Yes, with Arks I use a bit more pressure initially, lighten your pressure for your finish laps.

Keep testing as you are doing and you will fine tune, your system for your stone for the results you are looking for.

And then there is, The Micro bevel… and the Nano bevel…. Really the same thing, just a matter of degree. Works great with Arks.

Thanks for all the feedback-Really, I just enjoy learning and figuring out new challenges, so figuring this stone out intrigues me more than anything. Much simpler than the JNAT nagura progression I was playing with earlier this year. I may come back to that later.

edit: I just did about 20 minutes with that George Butler riding smooth on 5-6 drops of oil, followed by stropping. More results to report when I grow some whiskers again, but I'm pretty sure that my stroke is getting faster and more fluid already just from the repetition. It's been worth it already for that step-up in a key muscle memory.

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

I'm pretty sure that my stroke is getting faster and more fluid already just from the repetition.

Careful with the speed. An Arkie can do a lot of damage to an edge if you break your concentration.

My favorite Ark lubes are mineral oil for Washita and soft, WD40 for hards, blacks, and trans. I've been using Arkies for various tasks for 40yrs but never reached my full potential using them until I started following forums like this. I've come farther as a honer in the last 3 years as I did in the last 35 years by studying here and on the web. I learned that wonderful things happen when dead flat and highly polished. I learned about lapping one side to a lower grit to refine an edge. Wish I would have learned these thing a long time ago. As I write this I'm working over a Norton HB6 colored trans with a Norton HB3 black with a dab of .5 micron diamond compound. Astonishing results. Arkies are a labor of love. Learn them well and you will be rewarded.