Thread: Synthetic progression end result?

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

Shapton Glass hones just work. The only problem with them is they are so fast
it is only necessary to use half the strokes on the hone with only the weight of
the razor. Use the Shapton with a much lighter hand.

You are correct with both these statements, the Shaptons are very fast and demand a lighter touch and it took me awhile to figure this out, I currently start at the 4K and then go 8K ( Both Shapton GS ) and then finish on one of a few different naturals and then strop, sometimes I will do 5 weight of blade passes on a pasted strop with .25 diamond spray and then do 5-7 light passes with .5 CrOx, I know that sounds counter productive doing the .25 then .5 but the latter seems to soften the edge. I normally like just the natural edge finish but lately have been playing with sprays/pastes just to see what they are capable of and I also have thought about adding a Naniwa 12K SS as it seems to get a lot of love from a lot of ppl.

I use both the Shapton Glass HR and the Pro series, but differently. I have also been experimenting with the HC 8k.

I have the Shapton 500 HR double thick, a 1k HR on the way, and the 4k HR. The 'backbone' of my synth progression is a Shapton Pro 2k, 5k, and 8k.

The 500 is used to prep Gold Dollars, correct geometry, chips, brute forcing frowns, etc. I like it better than the Chosera 600 (it's faster), and it is as fast as the Pro 320 but finer. The 1k HR that's on the way goes between the 500 and the 2k Pro. Previously I went straight to the 2k Pro or used a Naniwa 1k SS or a 1k King.

My main bevel setter is the 2k Pro, followed by the 5k Pro and the 8k Pro. I follow this set with koma and tomo on a jnat finisher. This 'core' of Pros has produced excellent and repeatable results.

The 4k HR is used to refurb razors with developed bevels but have minor issues, and it's noticeably faster with my wear-resistant Yoshikane SLD slicer than the 5k Pro.

The following comments are something said to me by a knowledgeable honer or the result of limited experience on my part. The Shapton HR 10k was reported to be a 'chippy' hone at least on razors. Some do this and some don't for some reason. The HC 8k that I have produced edge artifacts that appeared as bright white dots at 10x magnification, but only on a very hard Swedish steel Kikiboshi - so far. The more I honed the more 'dots' I produced. I went back to the 8k Pro and they disappeared, and the edge appeared 'straighter'. This is the only razor (so far) that the 8k HC has produced such artifacts. I haven't the slightest idea why, but the HC polishes considerably more than the Pro or HR. It yields mirror-polished bevels if you like that sort of thing. The 8k Pro doesn't polish as well and there are a few residual scratches, but the bevel is easier to 'read' than the mirror polished HC bevel.

Cheers, Steve

If someone in the night pinched my 1k Chosera, and I was left with a superstone 2k, I'd not be devastated. It cuts quick, leaves the stria noticeably (to an average loupe) smoothed out. I have an old Naniwa stated as a Lobster brand, Deluxe stone 4k. It is 210 x 75 x 25 and is brown. So as far as Naniwa's go, I go Chosera 1k, superstones 2,3k. The brown 4k, then a superstone 5,8,10k. I've never used all of them at the same time or at least the same razor!

Full disclosure time: I'm so new to honing that I openly call myself a novice, I've had a lesson from Lynn but at lot of this is simply gaining experience.

So, I started by spending a significant amount of time here on the forums reading as much as I could about the synthetic hones. Circumstances made my choice for me as I had the opportunity to buy a used Norton 4k/8k and Shapton Glass 1k from the B/S/T. After my lesson with Lynn I ordered a Naniwa 12k and have had no complaints about any of these decisions, the price of the first set was decent and it's given me the opportunity to learn a few things. That last part is where I see the value along with the enjoyment I'm finding in honing.

Over the last couple of months I've used this progression with little complaint but have already come up with a few musings. The first is that I simply dislike the feel of the Norton 4k, particularly when moving from the Shapton. The second is the nagging feeling that an intermediate stone between the 1k and 4k could be easier/more convenient than the current progression.

I like both the Shapton and the Naniwa but at this point I'm more likely to take the later route as I know that Lynn has taken to recommending it and the obvious price difference between the two lines. If I do go this route I figure that I have two obvious choices to supplement what I have, the single Naniwa 3k to eliminate the 4k and fit between the Shapton and Norton or go with a 3-5 progression or, last but not least, buy the 3k/8k combo and simply eliminate (supplement more likely) the Norton altogether.

Thoughts, gentlemen? Want to talk me into the Shaptons instead? Keep in mind that I suspect, at this rate, I'll own a Naniwa 2k or 3k along with a 5k and 8k by this time next year.

Originally Posted by GreenRipper

Full disclosure time: I'm so new to honing that I openly call myself a novice, I've had a lesson from Lynn but at lot of this is simply gaining experience.

So, I started by spending a significant amount of time here on the forums reading as much as I could about the synthetic hones. Circumstances made my choice for me as I had the opportunity to buy a used Norton 4k/8k and Shapton Glass 1k from the B/S/T. After my lesson with Lynn I ordered a Naniwa 12k and have had no complaints about any of these decisions, the price of the first set was decent and it's given me the opportunity to learn a few things. That last part is where I see the value along with the enjoyment I'm finding in honing.

Over the last couple of months I've used this progression with little complaint but have already come up with a few musings. The first is that I simply dislike the feel of the Norton 4k, particularly when moving from the Shapton. The second is the nagging feeling that an intermediate stone between the 1k and 4k could be easier/more convenient than the current progression.

I like both the Shapton and the Naniwa but at this point I'm more likely to take the later route as I know that Lynn has taken to recommending it and the obvious price difference between the two lines. If I do go this route I figure that I have two obvious choices to supplement what I have, the single Naniwa 3k to eliminate the 4k and fit between the Shapton and Norton or go with a 3-5 progression or, last but not least, buy the 3k/8k combo and simply eliminate (supplement more likely) the Norton altogether.

Thoughts, gentlemen? Want to talk me into the Shaptons instead? Keep in mind that I suspect, at this rate, I'll own a Naniwa 2k or 3k along with a 5k and 8k by this time next year.

I started with the Norton 4/8k, still have it, but disliked soaking the darn thing.

Knew I needed a 1k, so that was the second Nani after the Nani 12k I purchased.

Then saw the Nani 3/8 combo, and that was it....over the while I"ve added a Nani 2k, a 5k and was given a 10k Nani....for me, I like the idea of finishing on naturals, have a few different flavours of those, so with the synthetic progression, that I could say now I'm at an ability to consistently produce results, I know what further edge treatment I get is the flavour of the natural I'm using.

So in a lot of ways, LOL, what you wrote is exactly what my experience has been, right down to the last sentence....

Well, at least I'm on a known path! I don't really mind soaking the Norton as I can dump it in a container of water and leave it there for an extended period. The Nani tends to get about a five minute soak as well even though I know it is a splash and hone synthetic.

Naturals are a thought for the future but I'm wary of going too far down that rabbit hole. At this point the idea is to learn to use my synthetics effectively and after that I can think about branching out. The real driving point at the moment is that I just don't like the feel of the Norton 4k and I have trouble defining that outside that the grit feels coarse and loose compared to the solid, silky feel of the other hones I'm using.

Originally Posted by GreenRipper

I like both the Shapton and the Naniwa but at this point I'm more likely to take the later route as I know that Lynn has taken to recommending it and the obvious price difference between the two lines. If I do go this route I figure that I have two obvious choices to supplement what I have, the single Naniwa 3k to eliminate the 4k and fit between the Shapton and Norton or go with a 3-5 progression or, last but not least, buy the 3k/8k combo and simply eliminate (supplement more likely) the Norton altogether.

Thoughts, gentlemen? Want to talk me into the Shaptons instead? Keep in mind that I suspect, at this rate, I'll own a Naniwa 2k or 3k along with a 5k and 8k by this time next year.

Thoughts? It's an awful lot of money to throw down on hones just because you don't like the tactile feed back of one. If you're already finishing on a Naniwa 12K nothing would really change as far as the final result goes. But if you already know you're gonna end up with a set of Naniwas, I'd pick up the 3K now, a 5K when I had the funds, and then round it out with an 8K later down the line.

If all you hone is straight razors, I don't think you'll get better stones than Naniwas. If you hone tools too and you're heavy handed like me, then I'd say Shapton is probably the better route to take.

Originally Posted by Marshal

Thoughts? It's an awful lot of money to throw down on hones just because you don't like the tactile feed back of one. If you're already finishing on a Naniwa 12K nothing would really change as far as the final result goes. But if you already know you're gonna end up with a set of Naniwas, I'd pick up the 3K now, a 5K when I had the funds, and then round it out with an 8K later down the line.

If all you hone is straight razors, I don't think you'll get better stones than Naniwas. If you hone tools too and you're heavy handed like me, then I'd say Shapton is probably the better route to take.

I can't say that I disagree, all of this is pretty hypothetical at the moment. If I decide to stick with the Norton then I'll probably pick up a 2k, either Naniwa or Shapton, sooner rather than later. I guess the thing that sticks in my mind is that when I decide to invest some more money in hones I want to have a plan and picking everyone's brains lets me mull things over in the meantime.

As far as other honing goes I stick to maintenance honing on knives and I've got a set of Chinese PHIGs lying around for that. None of those blades are expensive or fancy and while I've occasionally shown a tendency for being heavy handed in the past what I'm learning when it comes to honing razors is putting a check on that type of behavior.

Same here, I've definitely learned to be lighter with knives and razors. But there's still a switch in the back of my brain that says 'press harder!' when there's a chisel in my hand. So I just know with a soft hone like Nortons or Naniwa I'd gouge it. But my Shapton Kuromaku (Pro) stones did fine, no scratches no gouges. I imagine Glass stones would be similarly resilient.

Then again, I have an Arkansas stone series for just that. Which is probably why I never fully broke the habit, pressure is a necessary evil until the finishing phase with those.

But I figure if you pick up the 3K first you can go ahead and sideline the hone you dislike. Then assess if you need/want a 5K to go between that and the 8K later, but 3K to 8K is very do able. And round it off with an 8K when the mood strikes. Or just go straight to the 12K. I use the 1/2/5/12 progression with Kuromaku stones, I imagine going from 5K to 12k would work with Naniwa hones as well.

When I first started, yes, I bought the Norton 4K/8k. Largely that's what the YouTube video guys tell beginners to get. Fair enough. It is an inexpensive beginners hone. My first purchase was the Norton and 2 Gold Dollars. As i watched more videos and did more serious research I settled on the Shapton Glass series. But here's something else I've learned along the way: so much of this hobby is subjective. As long as you buy quality tools you should be fine. We've all read where some guys still only use the Norton because it works. I've still got my Norton, but rarely (never) use it.

(Hint on upcoming future thread: I scored big on an EBay auction vintage razor last night. More later).