Thread: Synthetic progression end result?

Originally Posted by jmabuse

Personally, although I have some intermediate stones I've never found a use for anything between a Shapton 1K glass and a good old Norton 4K/8K. The 1K gets the geometry, then the bevel gets set on the 4K. By the time I'm done with the 8K it's popping hairs up and down the edge, so then I do the Shapton 15K and 30K to finish.

But, I think getting more stones is a good plan! They're good fun and we all of us have a couple of forms of AD!

The beauty of the Norton 4K is that it was designed to remove 1K scratches. I'd say it might be a touch more coarse than it's Shapton equivalent, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing considering it's role in the progression.

Just to throw in with everyone else - light hand on the Shaptons, and probably fewer strokes than you would expect. When I want a sharp, smooth edge it only takes 5 to 10 strokes going from a Shapton Kuromaku (Japanese Pro stones) 5k to the 12K. They're very nice stones when you hit the mark.

That is what I am shooting for more greater elimination of potential mistakes after bevel set!

This is basically why I bought the 2K in the Kuromaku line. Less chance of errant 1K stria left over as I progress through the hones.

As said before I honed up a Hart steel razor up to 8k and the edge looked fantastic tree topping my thick arm hair. Finished the razor on a jnat w/diamond nagura and then tomo nagura. The shave last night was superb, effortlessly cutting through my beard hair, even trimmed up my sideburns (super thick bundle of hair) with ease.

I honed this same Hart razor the same way with my SG stones with a similar looking edge. That shave was excellent (sharp) too but not as smooth. I looked at each edge and noticed the one honed on the Shapton glass stones was a little more toothy than the Shapton pros? Looking back I believe I know why, for me the Shapton glass 4k stops cutting after 40 circles w/pressure (which is not a ton of pressure) and 40 circle without, then 10 or so X strokes which from the first to the last stroke felt like glass and so I would move on. With this Hart steel razor the steel will resist being cut with some stone more than others (theory), that being said the Shapton glass 4k stone cuts fast when it is fresh but when the surface burnishes (maybe I am using the wrong word here) the stone stops cutting the steel and is what I believe is happening pre 1k stria removal. Hence the non removal of the 1k scratch removal.

Now thinking about the Shapton pro 5k I did the same sequence (for consistency) but when it came to the X strokes they had resistance until about the 9th X stroke which told me the stone was still cutting up until that 9th one. Which is why I believe the shave was better was because there were simply more 1k scratch removal in the honing process.

I do believe those who posted here that the 1-4 or the 1-5 gap is doable. For that gap to be doable for me I realize there are some notes and questions that must be taken and asked along the journey to finish honing a razor.

It is imperative that the 1k scratches be removed not only for sharpness but mostly for smoothness of the edge?

From the side the edge can look straight and with light shining directly down on the apex reflect no light, but at the apex there can still be peaks and valleys left by the 1k if not removed leaving a toothy edge?

Even synthetic stones can stop cutting when smoothed out pending the type and hardness of steel is being cut, so don't assume because there is no more swarf that it's time to move on? There must be a visual inspection done?

What do you guys think of the above questions?

I like to do a visual inspection, yes. Make sure that the stria are uniform and there aren't any deep stragglers form the previous hone(s) still hanging around.

Yes, synthetic hones can stop cutting too. Mostly due to clogging in my estimation. A quick scrub under running water with the finger tips/scotch-brite pads, or a once over with a scrubbing stone can clear that up and bring the stone back to form quickly.

Yes, it is imperative that all 1K stria are removed. Chances are they'll go all the way to the edge and leave it toothy if not. Might shave, but will not be as comfortable as it could be.

As stated earlier, this is why I like a 2 or 3k in there. Yes, the jump from 1K to 4k or 5k can and has been done. And it works. You just have to be diligent enough to get rid of ALL the 1k stria on the higher grit hone before moving onward. It's tempting to move forward early, and I suspect that is what happened with the Glass hones in your test. If the stone is burnished or clogged, that needs to be addressed and/or the stria removed fully before moving forward.

I too believe that you need to remove all the coarser striae. However, as I said above, the Shapton 8k HC makes a smoother and more mirrored - fewer observable scratches - than the Pro but I cannot tell a difference in the feel of the finished edge. This may be because I follow each with koma and tomo which are or can be fairly abrasive, but I would be skeptical of a finished edge with 1k or midgrit scratches.

Shapton designed and graded the Pro series kind of as 'coarse, medium, fine' while the Glass series, both HR and HC, are designed to double in grit (though they make a 6k too).

So my progression for a razor needing serious work would be Shapton Glass HR 500 and 1000 for the coarse work, Shapton Pro 2k/5k/8k for the bevel set, midgrit, and finish prep, and if I wanted the Shapton Glass 4k HR could stand in for the 5k. Anyway, this is an approximate doubling of the grit at each stage, and my normal synthetic set is only 3 stones, the 500 and 1k are not often used.

Cheers, Steve

Oh, I meant to add that if you have trouble with the stone loading up when you're honing certain steels, King makes an 8k 'nagura' that's great for freshening up a synth, and you can make slurry with it too.

At 8k you don't have to worry as much about contaminating 8k or lower stones, you can speed up your honing even on coarser stones with a little 8k slurry, and it smoothes the surface of the hone too. At about $12 from Amazon Prime, it isn't cheap for what it is, but it is a nice accessory.

I use it post-honing to clean the stone too.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by Steve56

Oh, I meant to add that if you have trouble with the stone loading up when you're honing certain steels, King makes an 8k 'nagura' that's great for freshening up a synth, and you can make slurry with it too.

At 8k you don't have to worry as much about contaminating 8k or lower stones, you can speed up your honing even on coarser stones with a little 8k slurry, and it smoothes the surface of the hone too. At about $12 from Amazon Prime, it isn't cheap for what it is, but it is a nice accessory.

I use it post-honing to clean the stone too.

Cheers, Steve

Oh yes, that is perfect I am going to purchase that right now. I recently tried the brown cube nagura that came with the Naniwa chosera 1k on my shapton glass 1k to see what would happen and wow!!! I didn't have to use pressure at all to set the bevel and the bevel was the cleanest and straightest I have ever achieved. I then finished with X strokes right on the same SG 1k.

And like the Naniwa brown biscuit, throw the King in a cup of water when you start honing. It needs a little soak.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by Steve56

And like the Naniwa brown biscuit, throw the King in a cup of water when you start honing. It needs a little soak.

Cheers, Steve

Will do! Thank you

I use the Naniwa brown biscuit to clean up all my synthetics as-needed. It does the job pretty good, and so far hasn't managed to contaminate anything.

I used the brown biscuit for years, but like the King a bit better because it smoothes the hone. I've always thought that a coarser finish on a fine hone wasn't the best - the Arkansas effect - but I have no evidence of it. I still use the BB on coarser stones.

Cheers, Steve