Thread: Escher AFTER Coticule?

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

I would love to see that high quality new coticules which Escher wont give any improvement .
I have seen only 2 coticules which will give close edge to escher .
Not same. just close. They both old coticules Salm coticule and next one no name very slow cutter.

IN General who posted that message very smart person. He accepts at least there is low quality coticules out there. Some people never accept even that.
gl

So that means they're not smart? Thanks for the heads up

is there lower quality eschers out there?

Originally Posted by gary haywood

is there lower quality eschers out there?

In some peoples hands the best isn't good enough and in others the worst does just fine. It is the Indian's skill, not the bow or the arrow that hits the bullseye on the target. Personally I've been lucky. I've not had a bad coticule out of about 18 or 20 nor a bad Escher out of 9 that I've had the pleasure of honing on. If I can improve my skill the least of them may turn out to be first.

Originally Posted by Scipio

It is the only sense that I can make of why an 'Escher' would not improve a coti edge, when many including myself have experienced the opposite - unless the seller has only used one coti to determine this, that being the super coti that we are all still searching for....

I've never spoken to the seller but a hone collector friend told me that he has and that the seller is a knowledgeable guy. I'm sure the seller believes what he is saying and it is not some kind of marketing ploy.

It just doesn't agree with my own experience with the stones. IME, and in my hand, a coticule is better than an Escher for initial sharpening of a razor and does very well for finishing. An Escher finds it's most valuable place in finishing.

Sham told me that he doesn't put the edge on his Eschers until the razor is honed to the 12k level and beyond that is where the Escher out does even the J-nats. I don't have experience to compare the Escher to the J-nats, as Sham does, but IME the Escher takes the coticule finished edge further in sharpness and smoothness ..... for me and my personal shaving preference. Obviously YMMV.

Just My Humble Opinion


I like that saying and honestly I think it should be used way more often, when it comes to finishing hones..

I am beginning to really hate the words best and better...

Let's look at some finishers

Shapton 16k - 30k

Naniwa 10k - 12k

Ch12k (???)

Coticule

Escher

Thuringen

Japanese Natural


Saying one of these is better then the other, is only your opinion, on your face, on that stone, on one razor, nothing more...
Even the simple statement that was made about one after the other, is pure conjecture and opinion... Just look at Eschers, only those, how many different ones are there (Blue, Green, Yellow, Brown, & Combinations of those )????? and how many different types of Coticules??? The combinations of just those two stones are infinite yet we get a statement of "Fact" ??????????????????
It is bad enough with the synthetics, which eliminate the differences between the stones, let alone trying to say any one of the naturals is the BEST at anything since they are all different...
It makes for good discussion, nothing more

and That is JMHO

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Saying one of these is better then the other, is only your opinion, on your face, on that stone, on one razor, nothing more...

+1 Glen. I remember Kaptain Zero used to post on the forum and his sig line was something like,"just because you have a basketball, doesn't mean you'll play like Michael Jordan." I imagine Lynn could take a razor to a cinder block and get a better shaving edge than some guys could with a Nakayama asagi.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

So that means they're not smart? Thanks for the heads up

You see what you are looking for.
You hear what you like to hear.
Enjoy straight shaving.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

+1 Glen. I remember Kaptain Zero used to post on the forum and his sig line was something like,"just because you have a basketball, doesn't mean you'll play like Michael Jordan." I imagine Lynn could take a razor to a cinder block and get a better shaving edge than some guys could with a Nakayama asagi.

LMAO =)


Me

Glen I appreciate what you are saying. I for one am not saying one is better than the other and indeed complement Jimmy's post and agree that IME the coticule works better for me prior to the Escher. What I believe and have found with a limited sample of stones is that an (my) Escher improves a cotis edge, which was the original topic.

Jimmy - I have read Sham's findings that he will not use an Escher before 12K. He also wrote somewhere that it isn't good to go from 8k to the Escher. I get good results going from a Nani 8K to slurry on the Escher to plain water. I used to use a coti between the 2, but fail to see much improvement on the 8K when I go to an Escher afterwards.

I wonder how much difference the final edge off the Escher has from a 12K as opposed to an 8K.

Originally Posted by Scipio

Jimmy - I have read Sham's findings that he will not use an Escher before 12K. He also wrote somewhere that it isn't good to go from 8k to the Escher.

The reason why i said that not to go from 8k to Escher is this.
Escher's are expensive stones. To use them as sharpening stone in my mind is just wasting money.
We have to try get edge as fine as we can with alternative stones and at the end use Escher.
What we will get is Escher edge with less Escher use. this will escher last longer etc.
Now can you use Escher after even 4k?
Of course you can But end result will cost you what price?
This is why i said above .
i assume 12k you mean Chinese stone?
Again Any Escher's edge will be a lot finer then 12k Chinese stones. In this case why to use Escher 's before 12k?
hope this clears some words i have said. gl