Thread: Escher AFTER Coticule?

the other thing i wanted to mention. Sham you use escher with milky slurry only? and this is how you finish with slurry edge and no water then plain leather.

this is the thing i have to figure out i tryed slurry finished edge and it did'nt seem as smooth and seemed to slighly dull the edge for me.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

this is tough to swallow.
Were you poorly informed? i should say no you weren't .
In fact if you got the right coticule you will be very happy.
1 st you have spend less money
2nd you will get the shave you like
3 rd you don't have to struggle to learn more stones.
Now bad side of the deal.
if you will not get the right Coticule you will be in a little trouble.(for Some people it takes time until they Get their blade honed by Pro's and that opens their eyes)
you will look for better stones .
and that will not stop. you will get next Chinese 12k and think wow there is better edge out there then you will get japanese stone oops you will think what is going on i had no idea what is a nice edge should feel like then You will look for Escher's ,charnley forest so on on on.= HAD.
In the Other hand People are different. Some people will shave off 4k and be happy Some Even after finest stone won't get satisfied.
Hope this give s you better idea.
gl

Fair enough: a Coti is a natural stone, and therefor each bout is different from every other. Mine, according to Steve at Invisible Edge (who I trust) is a "top grade" bout, "not standard." But until my honing skills improve to the point that my ability exceeds the equipment, it's unlikely that I'll know if this is "the right Coticule." My sense is that the Coti is all I'll ever need.

Today, in fact, I took a vintage razor from dull to shave for the first time. It took a couple of hours and I was slow and careful, watching Bart's YouTube videos while I did it. I've tried over the past couple of weeks to hone my blades, and while I'm sure that I improved them, today's hone was the best one to date. So: I think I've got a good bout. Other, more experienced honers may disagree, but without my bout to try out, they can't possibly know. And equally important, until my skills improve, I'll never know either.

But I like the idea that I can use a single hone for all my razor needs. I'd even like to sharpen my Shun kitchen knives with it.

Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

I'd even like to sharpen my Shun kitchen knives with it.

Congrats on your success with the coticule. I would draw the line at honing knives on it. You could certainly do it and do it successfully but they will wear the soft coticule much faster than a straight razor. Better to reserve the coti for the razors and get something a bit harder for kitchen knives. IMHO.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Congrats on your success with the coticule. I would draw the line at honing knives on it. You could certainly do it and do it successfully but they will wear the soft coticule much faster than a straight razor. Better to reserve the coti for the razors and get something a bit harder for kitchen knives. IMHO.

The 220/1000 Norton, perhaps? My girlfriend, who is not permitted near my Shuns ("Don't even look at them!") has a mangled set of generic knives that has seen all sorts of unthinkable abuse and would clearly destroy my Coti. My sense is that the 220 would set a new bevel and the 1000 would sharpen it right up.

Do you have an opinion on the matter?

Originally Posted by MarkinLondon

The 220/1000 Norton, perhaps? My girlfriend, who is not permitted near my Shuns ("Don't even look at them!") has a mangled set of generic knives that has seen all sorts of unthinkable abuse and would clearly destroy by Coti. My sense is that the 220 would set a new bevel and the 1000 would sharpen it right up.

Do you have an opinion on the matter?

I'm not very knowledgeable on kitchen cutlery but from what little I've read 1k would be finer than many guys go on their kitchen knives. Somewhere between 325 and 600 is about tops IIRC. Not that you couldn't go as high as 1k but I don't think a lot of guys do unless it is the sushi guys. That is my impression anyhow. I think the 220 would be fine.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Except you no one did .?

Could be that no one called you on it

Words mean things, and yours meant that the people who make that observation are smart. Those who disagree with your ratio that 2 out of however many you've tried are "good" coticules get lumped into the group that don't "accept" that there are bad coticules. By inference, they must not be smart. Is that wrong?

Maybe I'm a little hypersensitive to your anti-coticule ramblings, but I am definitely weary of reading them.

i 've had a bout of steve and there well worth the money and as good as you' will get.

r you from uk?

Originally Posted by gary haywood

i 've had a bout of steve and there well worth the money and as good as you' will get.

r you from uk?

I live there now. I moved here in September for Grad School. LOTS of great antique Sheffield blades around here. I've picked up several for £6 (including a NOS Puma 95) and have started restoring them with a new Dremel and Coti. Who knew that pinning was such a huge PITA to do well? I can't even find a good source for fasteners and rods and washers and the like.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

your anti-coticule ramblings, but I am definitely weary of reading them.

This is the Problem you have . You think i am anti-coticule.
that is your understanding.
In reality i say truth about coticule or any other stones if i have tested or testing etc.
some people will accept that some wont. Some people have enough experience and enough coticules knows what i am saying.
Some don't.
if person had 1 good coticule and that stone puts nice edge to the stone that person will think this is the best stone out there available.
Nothing wrong with this person's opinion. he says what experienced.
Now I have my own opinion and i don't think i have to change it because
richmondesi doesn't like my opinion?
I would ask why some of you guys don't want to accept other people's opinions?
what issues do you have with it?
have fun

Im not anti coticule either, however I would not recommend it as a stone to start out with to someone learning to hone. Firstly a good sized one is quite expensive, more than a 4K/8K or a Nani 3/8K.

Second, while I have tried and tested Bart's methods, I think using coticules for bevel work and anything prior to polishing is like buying an expensive car that you have to push. Really. Coticules have their attributes and I admit are extremely versatile, but many dislike their final finish. Some members in this thread are happy with their shaves off a coti. Fair play, I respect that.

For those that want something more, a coti is pretty useless. You can bevel set with a 1k, refine on a 4/8 and finish on an Escher/Thurry/Jnat. Some large cotis can not much less than the cost of all these combined. And before even getting the finisher, a 1k and 4/8 is more than adequate, in fact recommeded to learn on prior to finishing with anything higher.

I started with a bout and it got me nowhere. I didn't know about SRP at the time and my initial failiures with the coti made me fear honing.
My point is they are expensive and far harder to use and without an experience honer at hand it is hard to learn to use cotis even with good advice, because the advice does not know the properties of the coti.

Sorry to go of on one.

Edit: You may like the idea of a single hone for all your needs, but it can not accomodate all your needs without you driving yourself mad for days trying to remove chips. You may one day come across a razor that needs some real edge correction, or a heavy wedge. You'll wish you had a lapping plate as the coti simply is not up to such a challenge.

Similarly one day you may want a better edge and buy a finisher that gives you better results. You may also buy a quicker synthetic hone as you're getting sick of spending hours setting bevels on your coti. Then you'll end up thinking why do I need this...?