Thread: Chinese Hone

Well I'm not taken by HAD. I only have just the amount of stones I need to put a respectable edge on my razors. My stones will eventually be replaced with better quality I'm sure, but for now they do the job just fine. I have, as my finishing stone, a C12k (What does PHIG mean by the way?) that was (stupidly) ordered from Classic razor.com (I later found I could have got one cheaper locally). The C12k does a fine job on producing a smooth finished edge. I have never tried any other stones though, so my experience is simply that of someone who has the tools for the job, and just what is required to maintain those tools in working order.


Mick

PHIG = People's Hone (of) Invariable Grit (Holli4Pirating, 2009)

I have never honed on a certified Escher, but the thuri I have is a fine finisher. I cannot compare the edge to anything else but the C12K, and they are similar, with the thuri being definately a faster stone.I believe it is Peoples Hone of Indeterminate Grit. Just like any other natural stone, you cannot determine the grit, only how it hones in comparison to a synthetic of similar grade and grit.

Originally Posted by VictorARJ

Hi

I'm looking for a finishing stone to use after my 4000/8000 norton. I've found this 12000 natural stone at classicshaving.com:

Natural Polishing Water Stone (12,000 Grit)


What do you think about it? Have you tried it?

I'm also thinking about a "belgian coticule" stone or maybe a Naniwa 12K stone.

I have both... go for the superstone if you have a choice.

For the price the chinese hone is as good a natural "fine" bargain
hone as you can get. You may want to look in the above Classified to see
if there are still some slurry stones for it available (speed it up). They vary
as all naturals do and the better ones are good slow rocks.
Natural finishers that best it cost 20-50 times as much perhaps more.
True fine natural finishers are rare....

I also have a Naniwa 12K Superstone and it is worth the extra price.
If you can afford it, a Superstone would trump a Chinese12K.

Originally Posted by rjezuit

Let's see now. C12K ~ $30.00, Escher ~ $400-500. It's like comparing a Ferrari to a Vega, in price, but not performance. Is the Escher 12-15X a better finisher? Is it 12-15X faster. I have a thuringian, don't know if its an Escher, because no label, and I picked up a C12K just to compare. The Escher leaves a fine finish as does the thuri, but MUCH faster.

+1
Exactly... one thing missing in the C12K equation is a worthy lap to set it flat the first time.
I say worthy because a C12K is hard and will eat a DMT for an expensive lunch depending
on the DMT.

The best thing I've found to lap the C12K is a lapped Norton flattening stone. After that you can knock out any scratches on the C12K with some 2000 grit wet/dry.

Originally Posted by rjezuit

Let's see now. C12K ~ $30.00, Escher ~ $400-500. It's like comparing a Ferrari to a Vega, in price, but not performance. Is the Escher 12-15X a better finisher? Is it 12-15X faster. I have a thuringian, don't know if its an Escher, because no label, and I picked up a C12K just to compare. The Escher leaves a fine finish as does the thuri, but MUCH faster.

You are right. There is another important thing, I like bigger stones, not less than 2' wide, lenght at least 7'. And I use stones like this, I can feel it better. I wonder, what could be the cost of Escher 8' x 3' x 1'? One or may be two thousand.That is for professional honemeister, who hones 15-20 razors everyday. I'm collecting razors and stones both. From time to time I sell or buy some razors. Before selling I do honing, but 25-30 razors per year. And I easily manage finishing job by Chinese stone, I'm not in a hurry. I have an Escher, faster stone, which is inly one inch wide, I use it together with strop only for those 5 razors, with which I shave myself, in order to keep them in form.
There is another very important thing about Escher and Thuringian. I would like to quote a professional honemeister, I found this quote on a site, which is selling stones. " If you have used a high quality natural Belgian stone, the Escher/Thuringian stone is NOT recommended as a final hone, because the edge profiles created by these stones are different and not complementary. A high quality Belgian stone (such as the ones we sell) produces an edge without burrs, therefore that edge is already drawn toward attaining an ideal finish, so you wouldn't gain any advantage by using the Escher."

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

+1
Exactly... one thing missing in the C12K equation is a worthy lap to set it flat the first time.
I say worthy because a C12K is hard and will eat a DMT for an expensive lunch depending
on the DMT.

No need for DMT, lapping is easily done by sandpaper. On a thick pieсe of glass you put sandpaper and fix it with scotch, then start lapping. You will need 3 pieces of sandpaper; 600-800-1200. Result is excellent, your stone becomes even ft a price of 3 pieces of sandpaper. I did it myself.
P.S. If you managed to get a very bad stone, use forth piece of sandpaper - 400 grit.

Originally Posted by Zelenbakh

I wonder, what could be the cost of Escher 8' x 3' x 1'?

Eschers don't come in that size neither in 8" x 3" x 1".

Originally Posted by Zelenbakh

" If you have used a high quality natural Belgian stone, the Escher/Thuringian stone is NOT recommended as a final hone, because the edge profiles created by these stones are different and not complementary. A high quality Belgian stone (such as the ones we sell) produces an edge without burrs, therefore that edge is already drawn toward attaining an ideal finish, so you wouldn't gain any advantage by using the Escher."

That's a quote from TimberTools which sells new Thuringians as NOS Eschers, a total scam imo. I wouldn't put any value to that quote.

I've lapped quite a few hard stones and it can save hours by just starting with 120 grit sanding paper/mesh. If you're lapping a soft stone like a Thuringian you can start at a higher grit like 400-600 or if the stone you want to lap is already pretty flat.

Originally Posted by Piet

Eschers don't come in that size neither in 8" x 3" x 1".


That's a quote from TimberTools which sells new Thuringians as NOS Eschers, a total scam imo. I wouldn't put any value to that quote.

I've lapped quite a few hard stones and it can save hours by just starting with 120 grit sanding paper/mesh. Only if you're lapping a soft stone like a Thuringian you can start at a higher grit like 400-600.

I have two C12K stones, I did lapping for both and the progression was 600-800-1200. But each stone has a character, one of these Chinese quite a good cutter. As for the internet shop, I did not know about their bad reputation, they offer quite a lot of stones, including Belgians, which I like very much.
For Lapping I never use 120 grit sandpaper, it leaves scratches, it's better to use lapping stone, which is around 300 grit. My progression for lapping is very easy to check, it cost almost nothing and give fine result.