Thread: Shapton Ceramic on Tempered Glass or somthing else? Please give advice!!!

From what i have been reading the 30k is an overkill, the 16k sounds good though

I still have no idea on what to get, maybe i will call SRD tonight...

Also what about natural stones, there are a few in the classifieds? or something else all together?

Edit: I put an order in for the DMT Lapping Plate from this site: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ $179usd but i don't know how much the postage is yet...

Originally Posted by Str8Shooter

Just a thought. How fragile are the Shapton's? Also I'd love to have some input from the honemeister's of Lynn, Max, and Glen. How much of a difference do you see with the 16000 and 30000 Shapton in use? I guess I'm wondering if you feel they make a significant improvement in sharpness levels. How often do you use them? Do you favor them on certain blades etc???

Thanks
Paul

Shapton's??? Fragile??? I think not. Very hard & durable for a synthetic. The Pro's hold their flatness even better than the GS's IME.

I would go for the Shaptons in 1/4/8/16k and here's why:

- The Shaptons don't need soaking like the Nortons do.
- The Shaptons don't warp when they get wet like the Naniwas do, nor are they as thirsty.
- The Shaptons are hard stones and don't dish out much at all whereas the Naniwas are softer and dish more easily, particularly the 1k.
- The 30k is a nice to have but not necessary, so 16k is more than enough to get a great edge. Bit you have the option to add more stones in if you want.

I'd go for the 325 DMT as a lapping plate as it's way cheaper than the DGLP and works as an edge repairer too.

I really like the Naniwas, don't get me wrong, but I find myself using the Shaptons more and more due to their consistency, high performance and durability.

This is all just IMHO by the way. Either the Nortons, Naniwas or Shaptons would serve you great, it's just my personal pick would be the Shaptons.

Hope that helps!

Thanks stubear,

I think i will get the Shaptons, that DMT plate i purchased should be ok with them shouldn't it?

What about the professional Shapton stones? dose anyone know the best place to get them? how much more expensive are they?

Hello Brighty,

before you jump into unnecessary expenses, let me tell you that sometimes the honing system you use is not the problem.
You do not need to buy a whole set, just because you have trouble with (apparantly) one stone. I have not tried the Ice Bear 10k,
so I can not tell you where the problem is. But have you considered giving the 10 a very good lapping?

Usually the softness of a sharpening stone is not an issue for sharpening straight razors, since they are guided (no free hand sharpening) and do not gauge the stone.

I agree that King is not the best brand there is, but it should get you where you want to go just fine.
I suggest you do this:

Give all your Kings an excellent lapping, according to the wiki.
The DMT you bought is very agressive but will do the job perfectly fine.
You can refine your finishing stones with some fine wet/dry sandpaper (lets say #600).

If however you still find the need for a new system you could invest in one of the known great setups in addition to what you have.
Like get a Norton 4k/8k. A great combination stone known around the forums. Start with your King 1.200 until the bevel is set,
then polish on these two Nortons.

You could also go for a Naniwa Superstone 3.000 and 8.000. Start with the King 1.2k,
switch to the Naniwa 3k, decide if you want to put the King 6k inbetween or skip it and go to the SS 8k.
But beware, the Naniwas are velvety soft, yet this is not a problem for straights.

For finishing I recommend a polishing compound. Get a bottle of 0,5µm diamond spray and put it on a felt strop (you can build one yourself).
Or buy chromium oxide of high quality. This will give you the extra 10% after the 8k.

My suggestion is that you do not get god results due to a lack of honing skills and only partly due to the system you are using.
Before investing in a whole system, get to know what you already have.
Once you´re comfortable and get acceptable results you can switch anytime to a great setup,
to get awesome results.

A word about the Shaptons on Glass vs. Professional.
Both systems do work just fine. The professional 5.000 can be a tad slow after a 1.200 stone.
Still these are great stones. The GS is the newer of both system, hence not everybody still carries the Professionals.
The Glass Stones are very good indeed, but the Shaptons (that´s what I find) are the hardest system to master.

I currently own and use:
A Naniwa Superstone System, a Shapton Professional System, a Shapton Glasstone System

btw. I would strongly recommend you to skip the King 320 and not to use it for razors.
It is way to agressive and coarse. You should get along with the 1.2k for bevelsetting!

Just a thought. How fragile are the Shapton's? Also I'd love to have some input from the honemeister's of Lynn, Max, and Glen. How much of a difference do you see with the 16000 and 30000 Shapton in use? I guess I'm wondering if you feel they make a significant improvement in sharpness levels. How often do you use them? Do you favor them on certain blades etc???

Hi Paul, I am by no means a Honemeister, but maybe I can answer your question.
I do not know what exactly you mean with fragile. If you drop a Shapton GS to the stone floor,
it might eventually crack. Just like most stones would.
The Glasstones are ceramic bond to tempered glass.
Tempered Glass is used for windshields in cars, as far as I know.
It is much more durable than normal glass and will not shatter that easily.
The Glass is used as a backup, since the 5mm of Ceramic alone would be too fragile.
So I would say in normal use they are not more prone to shattering than most others.

Since I own both the 16k and the 30k GS maybe I can tell a little something about these, too.
The GS 16k puts on a nice mirror after a good 8.000 Stone.
Only under high magnification, a very faint and homogenous scratch pattern is evident.
It´s so soft, you could almost say it is scratch free. To the naked eye you see only a dark 3D luster.

The Edge it is capable of producing is straight and keen (high magnification).
Only very faintly some detorriations can be present at ~120-200times magnification.
The HHT is positive and a shave comfortably possible. Yet I find the 16k just a tad harsh.

The 30k does not put things on a whole new level. It does not.
It also doesn´t improve the Edge worth 3 times the price of a 16k.
It is an object of prestige! But when you have it, you will eventually come to love it.
I have a Wacker Jahresmesser 2008 as well as an Iwasaki Kamisori sharpened on the Shapton System
upt to 30.0000. Both show a perfectly dark 3D luster to the naked eye,
with even less of a scratch pattern under high magnification.

The edge seems not to become simply sharpened. Under magnification you can see,
the little detorriations will not get entirely lost, but somehow smoothened out.
The edges of these little detorriations and nicks cease to be frayed and take on some kind of haloish shine.
That`s something that happens with a 0.5µ diamond strop on felt, too.

The 30k needs a very good technique, otherwise you will not benefit from it

i have lapped all the stones, i used a pencil and marked the stones. lapped until the markings went away (and the king branding)

I cant get an 'ok' result from the 1200 - 6k and i could properly just strop from the 6k and get a shave but it wouldn't be the best. So there is properly nothing wrong with the king stones...

The ice bear i lapped on a cheap DMT and then finished it with 600grit wet\dry. I have gone through this twice with that stone and have had no improvement.

The king stones were lapped with the same method and it seems to work with them.. I'm properly bit of a perfectionist and I'm not happy until i can get that perfection I'm looking for. Not to mention i have a bad spending habit lol

Whats interesting with the ice bear stone is the water saturation on the stone, i can actually see section where the water soaks in and it goes darker and on other sections it stays a light color. im guessing this is why im getting an uneven feel when i use it.

If i do buy a stone from SRD its actually better for me to buy the who set due to the cost of postage.

For one stone it costs me $50 for postage, to buy the whole set its $65 so i don't want to go back and forward and i need to buy in bulk. Even to buy 1 new sleeve for my shavett was going to cost me $35 postage, seems a little out but as long as i buy in bulk i can justify the costs.

and hey, you can never have too many stones can you? hehe. Its just deciding witch ones...

Originally Posted by Lesslemming

Hello Brighty,

You could also go for a Naniwa Superstone 3.000 and 8.000. Start with the King 1.2k,
switch to the Naniwa 3k, decide if you want to put the King 6k inbetween or skip it and go to the SS 8k.
But beware, the Naniwas are velvety soft, yet this is not a problem for straights.

I currently own and use:
A Naniwa Superstone System, a Shapton Professional System, a Shapton Glasstone System

Thanks Lesslemming,

Since you have tested most the stones, if all you stones went missing and you had to start again from scratch. what setup would you choose? just as a personal choice obviously?

My main go-to system is the Shapton glass stone System. But this is because I grew up (so to speak) to them. I switched to this system, not because I was unsatisfied with my other system, but because it offered the option of an ultimate finisher, the 30k. I started sharpening straights with the Naniwa Super System and would recommend it anytime for a beginner.
These are quick, consistent and produce fantastic results.

A full Naniwa System would be composed of:

• (King 1.2k for bevelsetting)
• 3.000 and/or 5.000
• 8.000
• 12.000 (optional, can be replaced by polishing compound)