Thread: Naniwa 12K after a Coticule, to improve edges that are good but not great?

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

My coticule is kind of my all purpose always works finisher. I've never met a coticule finished edge I didn't like to shave with but you can do better. I'll use my Escher for a definite upgrade and the Shapton 30K Glass also. Then of course thereos always the pasted strops too.

Agree 100% I have a couple of "Go To" Coticules, but I'm a tough critic. I feel the edge can always be better.
The Escher is a fantastic finisher, hands down, my personal favorite, and normally the first line of defense for a degrading razor.

But, I am spoiled. SRD's Hard Wool Felt with .50 Diamond Spray is a must. Any edge can be improved with 10 lapps on it. It just takes your blade to the next level.

I just honed up a DD GE the other day, It's ugly, but it's a DD GE....It's got some pitting, some staining, but it doesn't matter, If you've used one, you understand. I honed it up on the Coticules, it was good, but it wasn't great.
I used the Wool Felt with .50. and it's "Shavana"

Might be something in the alloy of the second-level razors that the coti won't cut.

If they refuse to yield to anything, make a balsa hone with 0.25 micron diamond or green chromium oxide (0.5).

Nice fine grained carbon steel should yield to natural stones nicely, but as far as I know, there are no carbides that diamonds and green stuff won't cut.

All of my naturals are particular about the steels that are used, at least when it comes to woodworking tools. Never paid that much attention with razors.

Great replies guys, I'm learning loads. What is interesting is that tonight I took one of the 2nd grade razors, dulled it on a bottle then reset the bevel with my King 1000 then moved straight onto the 6000, then finished ve it it on my dragons tongue. I then tried to improve the edge with a C12K (PHIG) but it dulled slightly. Then I went back to the DT and got it back to where it had been. I have just test shaved and it was sharper than it had been from the coticule but the edge was not as smooth and I have very slight burn.

Before I shave with it next I shall give it a dozen or so laps on my coti 1st and see what that does.

I'm still tempted by the Naniwa but in the meantime I'll explore this method.

in my limited experience going to a stone that will get you finer and sharper but not as smooth, followed by a few laps one something thats not as keen but smoother can get you a good comprimise at worst, or the best of both worlds at best.

if your coti on water is slow to cut but polishes, get sharp on a finer faster cutting stone, and do just enough laps on your coti with water or lather to get smooth.

it make sence to me. worked for me with my jnat(keen) and escher(smooth). try it for yourself.

Originally Posted by Ryan82

I have yet to find a razor that has not benefitted from a few laps on the Naniwa 12k. Yes, I like coticule edges, infact some of my edges remain untouched coticule edges, but the Naniwa does seem to give it that little bit "extra". Plus, it depends on how I feel like honing: 50-100 coti laps vs 10-15 on the Nani.

From money and consistency standpoints you can't go wrong by having a Naniwa 12k in your honing arsenal.

45 blades on the coti, and only 2 have approached the Asagi edge. A kind and generous forum member was so convinced I'd love the Nani 12, he bought one and had it sent to me. And he was right. For all the effort poured into the coti edge, the Nani takes them quickly to a better finish. I'm fully qualified as NOT a coti expert, but Ryan's point is hard to argue. 50-100 strokes on the coti for a 'maybe' improvement vs 10-20 on the Nani. Take it then to the asagi, and life is really good, though I have to say - right off the Nani is also very good. It was Gary H's posts that got me thinking of the nani. I'm grateful for his honest and generous sharing of his findings. And, of course to the kind member that pushed me into the Nani.

i new some one would question me. my answer is . lets just say i 'm struggling to get that las bit of keeness out of my coticule. which i don't mind admitting. in most cases i have no problem. To save time i find a thew laps on my naniwa 10k work s on getting that last bit of keness, and the razor shaves with the keeness i want and takes less time . in some cases i have found the razor to be sharper but quite as smooth as i'd like so i then finish on coti with 20 to 30 laps on water. this edge feels nicer on my skin, also i like the idea of a natural finish. the keeness is still there and the smoothness is as nice if not nicer for me.

I'm sure i read some where that you tryed the naniwas and also liked them. I', sure you said you finished at 10k naniwa and then used a natural finisher after wards, as you said you like natural finisher.

using coticule after a 8k norton never dulled the edge infact it gave a real nice finish and a sharp edge , ts the same for me after the 10k naniwa , i just do most of the wrk on a coticule then 10k if i feel it will hep save time by going to higher grit manmade. just somthing i have tryed and i found it worked for me with out the need to use paste

cheers gary

Originally Posted by pinklather

45 blades on the coti, and only 2 have approached the Asagi edge. A kind and generous forum member was so convinced I'd love the Nani 12, he bought one and had it sent to me. And he was right. For all the effort poured into the coti edge, the Nani takes them quickly to a better finish. I'm fully qualified as NOT a coti expert, but Ryan's point is hard to argue. 50-100 strokes on the coti for a 'maybe' improvement vs 10-20 on the Nani. Take it then to the asagi, and life is really good, though I have to say - right off the Nani is also very good. It was Gary H's posts that got me thinking of the nani. I'm grateful for his honest and generous sharing of his findings. And, of course to the kind member that pushed me into the Nani.

You have just explained very well, better than i am with words, i have tryed both 10 k and 12k and your quite right it just saves time and messing. i've even finished with thury after 12k and it was an absalutley lovely edge. very similar to coticule. it amzed me how a 10k that is so fine yet they cut and polish so quik. i've not got a 12k now wished i'd kept on to it.

Originally Posted by Jimbo7

Because he likes the results he gets with it? Just a guess. It's an interesting idea.

Gary, do you find that the edge retains the keenness of the naniwa but gains the smoothness of the coticule? This is an interesting idea, I wish I had a naniwa to try it out on!

thats the idea, i have found just that , all though its good to honethe razor using dilucot, test shave then add 10 laps on naniwa 10 or 12 k. test and shave another 10 laps and compare. then do 10 to 30 laps on coti with water , and test save again. see what you like. you can always do another 10 lap s on naniwa . i like the coti edge thats why i do it, its not often but its handy to have the naniwa. raspur hones using a similar method. he comes of slurry straight on to naniwa 10k and does quite a thew laps to finish then bio paste if he needs. watch his video.

i've used just that rich, i've gone .5 diamond spray followed up with 10 laps on crox spray and gave a real nice edge .

Jeltz,

As a 'newbie' user of BBWs & Cotis, I still routinely use the Naniwa 12k to finish after my Coti (I normally hone with a 1, 3, 8, 12 k Naniwa progression).

I have noticed that the edges finished with the Naniwa 12k after the coti cut my whiskers 'easier' than when I finish with the coti alone (I have a vintage La Veinette and a very hard La Verte).

I do not know the reason why this is so, but regardless my chops notice the difference

It might be (and probably is) that my skills with the Coti are not there yet !!

I have also recently tried going back to the La Verte Coti for a final few laps with water alone after the Naniwa 12k, and have found the edge very shaveable.

I have not done this with enough razors to satisfy myself that this last method of finishing is much superior to just finishing on the Naniwa 12k, but I shall find out eventually

As I shave with a straight razor for fun, and hone for fun, I really like the associated experimenting

I feel that as virtually every aspect of straight razor shaving is very personal and YMMV, why shouldn't the honing etc be the same; I very much doubt that there are absolutes that apply to everybody and every razor when it come to honing If it works for you, have at it !

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ