Thread: Naniwa 12K after a Coticule, to improve edges that are good but not great?

Thank you Gary for your explanation.

Originally Posted by gary haywood

i new some one would question me. my answer is . lets just say i 'm struggling to get that las bit of keeness out of my coticule. which i don't mind admitting. in most cases i have no problem. To save time i find a thew laps on my naniwa 10k work s on getting that last bit of keness, and the razor shaves with the keeness i want and takes less time . in some cases i have found the razor to be sharper but quite as smooth as i'd like so i then finish on coti with 20 to 30 laps on water. this edge feels nicer on my skin, also i like the idea of a natural finish. the keeness is still there and the smoothness is as nice if not nicer for me.

I'm sure i read some where that you tryed the naniwas and also liked them. I', sure you said you finished at 10k naniwa and then used a natural finisher after wards, as you said you like natural finisher.

using coticule after a 8k norton never dulled the edge infact it gave a real nice finish and a sharp edge , ts the same for me after the 10k naniwa , i just do most of the wrk on a coticule then 10k if i feel it will hep save time by going to higher grit manmade. just somthing i have tryed and i found it worked for me with out the need to use paste

cheers gary

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

Thank you Gary for your explanation.

i try my best to explain, sham i no for a fact you can hone a razor and very well at that as i have tryed your edges, i would say they are defanatley top honed edges with out a shadow of dout i would say apart from bart one of the best i have shaved with , apart from my own, only joking!

i like most guys have acumalted a lot of honing gear and i try and use it if i can . its a hobby to me and i enjoy the differant results i get . what works for one person may not another , i'll always give somthing ago. I only have a 10k naniwa i just orderd a 12k naniwa.

cheers gary

Soooooo let me see if I read this right...

If you hone the razor to "shave ready sharpness" then use a finisher you get a really nice smooth shave????

Wow who would have thunk it???

Yes that was me being sarcastic

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Soooooo let me see if I read this right...

If you hone the razor to "shave ready sharpness" then use a finisher you get a really nice smooth shave????

Wow who would have thunk it???

Yes that was me being sarcastic

To my knowledge both the naniwa 10 and 12k as well as the coticule are considered finishers. Maybe our wiki is incorrect on that point. Not having used the naniwa line, I can only go from what I read.

"Shapton GS 16k-30k; Shapton 15k; Naniwa SS 10k-12k or Chosera 10k; Thuringians (including Eschers); various natural Japanese finishers; Charnley Forest; extra fine Coticules; some Arkansas hones"

I think Gary (please don't let me put words in your mouth, Gary) was talking about one finisher imparting a smoothness on top of a keenness acquired from the other finisher. Do you guys think the naniwa 10/12k is more of a sharpening stone than a finisher?

Actually the key words in my post are the same as some of us (Lynn, myself sham) have been espousing for years now...

"shave ready sharpness"

The grit at which you get there is in your hands, for some of us that is at 8k for some 10k and for others even higher.. This is something that every experienced honer says at one point or another, but no one listens.. If you can't shave comfortably at the 8k level with the synthetics a finisher is a waste of money...

So going from a "shave ready sharpness" point to a natural finisher is the same principle no matter what the grit is at...
That might be a 8k for you or a 10k or a 12k or even higher

Get it shaving your face comfortably, then use a finisher (regardless of type)

Originally Posted by gssixgun

If you can't shave comfortably at the 8k level with the synthetics a finisher is a waste of money...

I Completely agree with this, except the part that it has to be done with synthetics!

Originally Posted by Jeltz

Hi I have a few razors, 4 of which come off my coticule with an awesome edge, Kropp, Sprock, Gold Dollar (yes really) and Seehund. The others will shave well but are not quite in the same league as far as sharpness goes Kukri, Hermes, Bassler (inox), Joseph Elliot Wedge, Allen & sons.

I am confident that the bevels and are good and, with the possible exception of the wedge, I'm confident that my technique on the OK razors has been the same as the on the great ones.

I was wondering if a 12K Naniwa superstone is likely to improve the edge after a coti or whether I should just accept that some razors are better than others.

I don't have the time to read through all the posts to this thread so forgive me if I repeat something already posted and don't give credit where due. Also, this will be the abbreviated version.

Your honing methods would be great, being the same for all razors, if all razors were equal. They are not. Holli mentioned that some razors do better on some hones and other not so good. This is a true statement and has to do with the hardness of the metal in the blade and the hardness of the grit and binder in the hones. I would venture a guess that the razors that are not as sharp as the others have a harder metal than the sharpest of your razors. More time on the hone, light pressure and constant flushing of the coti amy assist in obtaining a better edge. I harder hone would also help to a point. If the hone is too hard (the binder) the worn grit will not break free to expose new sharp grit and the hone will clog with removed metal. Metal rubbing on metal is not good for a sharp edge. If the hone's binders are too weak you will develop a slurry in no time. Gotta go. Hope this helps some.

Originally Posted by Jimbo7

I Completely agree with this, except the part that it has to be done with synthetics!

I didn't say that, "Shave Ready Sharpness" is a point in time/sharpness on the edge, not a grit level or a type of stone/hone...
It also is a moving point because of differences in your face / the razor / and the hones used... (see Joed's and Dylan's posts)

We have over the years, grown to accept that level to be somewhere near the Norton 8k level, but that is just a reference point that many people can relate to it is not set in STONE lol

PS: Sorry for all the editing, I am at work while typing this

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I didn't say that

My apologies. I didn't mean to misquote you, I was merely being facetious.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

If you are in the position where you would have to buy the Naniwa 12k, you may want to first explore a less expensive alternative, like a pasted strop for example.

Well I was able to squeeze the extra bit of sharpness out of a stainless steel blade last night with 10 laps on a chromium oxide balsa strop. I've never had much success with crox before but this time is seemed to work a treat!