Thread: J-Nat club

I do have a bit of an problem singling him out over a false stamp which appears on many venues throughout Japan though I'll admit it is not ethical in the West. A Canadian friend of mine told me that in Japan, 'stamps are for Westerners'.

Alex has said many times that old stamps on new stock stones are suspect. Many sellers sell modern 'Maruichi' stones though Maruichi was a whetstone company long out of business and known for fitted wooden bases. IIRC Alex said they never stamped stones with their own 'brand'. So are we going to go after sellers well known on this forum for selling new stock stones with a stamp that maybe never even existed? I believe Alex also said the mine stamps were not copyrighted anymore and anyone can use them. Maybe he can weigh in on the issue.

It's also important to understand what a maruka stamp means. As I understand it, Kato-San who was a miner, put this stamp on stones he considered to be a better quality as far as physical defects go. Kato-San, being a miner, had absolutely no idea what the stone would be used for, knives, planes, kiridashi, razors, etc. So having a genuine maruka stamp does not mean the stone is suitable for razors. It might be a great knife or tool stone.

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by Steve56

I do have a bit of an problem singling him out over a false stamp which appears on many venues throughout Japan though I'll admit it is not ethical in the West. A Canadian friend of mine told me that in Japan, 'stamps are for Westerners'.

Alex has said many times that old stamps on new stock stones are suspect. Many sellers sell modern 'Maruichi' stones though Maruichi was a whetstone company long out of business and known for fitted wooden bases. IIRC Alex said they never stamped stones with their own 'brand'. So are we going to go after sellers well known on this forum for selling new stock stones with a stamp that maybe never even existed? I believe Alex also said the mine stamps were not copyrighted anymore and anyone can use them. Maybe he can weigh in on the issue.

It's also important to understand what a maruka stamp means. As I understand it, Kato-San who was a miner, put this stamp on stones he considered to be a better quality as far as physical defects go. Kato-San, being a miner, had absolutely no idea what the stone would be used for, knives, planes, kiridashi, razors, etc. So having a genuine maruka stamp does not mean the stone is suitable for razors. It might be a great knife or tool stone.

Cheers, Steve

After seeing the seller and what he sells, indeed, it would be a pity if he was banned, but the practice of stamping his random stones must stop.
In Japan stamps don't mean a lot, if anything, because if you want one, you visit a shop, test and buy what you need.
For us though, stamps make a huge difference. A year ago I bought a stone from Ouchi quarry or something, a kiita. Perfectly shaped, no broken corners, full of red dots, the radiolaria kind, a beauty, if it was a nakayama it would fetch 5k$. Bought it for 270?$ or somewhere around there. It was absolutely awful, almost no cutting power although not hard, you couldn't shave with it, and it was useless as a prefinisher as well because of the lack of cutting power...
We don't have the luxury to visit a Japanese hone's shop here. That's why that insurance is important.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

After seeing the seller and what he sells, indeed, it would be a pity if he was banned, but the practice of stamping his random stones must stop.
In Japan stamps don't mean a lot, if anything, because if you want one, you visit a shop, test and buy what you need.
For us though, stamps make a huge difference. A year ago I bought a stone from Ouchi quarry or something, a kiita. Perfectly shaped, no broken corners, full of red dots, the radiolaria kind, a beauty, if it was a nakayama it would fetch 5k$. Bought it for 270?$ or somewhere around there. It was absolutely awful, almost no cutting power although not hard, you couldn't shave with it, and it was useless as a prefinisher as well because of the lack of cutting power...
We don't have the luxury to visit a Japanese hone's shop here. That's why that insurance is important.

I would agree with you 100% except that we in the west are most likely attributing characteristics to stones based on the stamps that even the original, genuine companies never intended. Of course, that's our fault, not theirs.

I've bought stamped stones 'blind' a few times and as a class of stones, they're no better than the unstamped ones. This statement would NOT be true of stones from Western dealers that actually test the stamped stone and describe it for us. The Japanese had lots of stamps and some of them look suspiciously like the maruka stamp though they are not.

But yes, he should not stamp the better stones he has with a false stamp to increase profits from people who do not know better.
Cheers, Steve

This has been a very nice and enlightening read. Thanks to all the contributors.

It seems when picking a J-Nat one has to be careful with the scam artists.

Originally Posted by hrfdez

This has been a very nice and enlightening read. Thanks to all the contributors.

It seems when picking a J-Nat one has to be careful with the scam artists.

I wouldn't necessarily call them scam artists, the same thing happens here all the time. Maybe 'creative marketing' is a better term, but as always, let the buyer beware. And if it's a stamped stone too good to be true, it probably is.

Cheers, Steve

Thanks for all the info! I've talked stamps with garret a lot, and stone dealers don't give a crap about them. If it's a good stone, it's a good stone. I also think the value of a maruka has been filled with false ideas of what they actually are. My only intentions for bringing up the issue was to prevent a newbie from making a bad decision, and it looks like at least one person found it helpful so far.

Originally Posted by prodigy

Thanks for all the info! I've talked stamps with garret a lot, and stone dealers don't give a crap about them. If it's a good stone, it's a good stone. I also think the value of a maruka has been filled with false ideas of what they actually are. My only intentions for bringing up the issue was to prevent a newbie from making a bad decision, and it looks like at least one person found it helpful so far.

I found it very helpful and informative. My thanks!

Originally Posted by prodigy

Has anyone else seen the multiple "maruka" stones on ebay? They don't appear to be the same quality, and the stamps look fishy to me. I have several genuine maruka stones, and my stamps don't look like any of the ones I see on ebay. Here is the stamp I think is fake. Just wanted to see if anyone could confirm my theory and help newbies from paying a lot of money for a fake.

Attachment 245531

Genuine Maruka stamps look different, They are not in black ink rather purple or blue is the right color. I know that really old ones look brown.

That stamp is not genuine as far as I am concerned.

I just snapped some pics of mine. The kiita and the really thick one have very clear stamps. The third with the base has the remnants of ink, not sure though because it's only a little piece of a corner of the stamp that remains. Ironically, the stone in question was from the mentioned seller, but it was cheap, and it's very nice.

This seller was selling in the begining only old stones from people He buy and old stones and sell them . I have 13 or 14 stones from it and some naguras .
He was selling mainly a old class stones used , thinned or chiped He had some very good stones Few people that i told abbout him , buy some good stones from it I bought incredible stones ,that were thinned, on incredible prise. Normaly i cannot never affort them in normal circumstancess . I bought a Kokusaibunka razor from it a brand new for 11 $ He was selling a lot of good razors back then on a lower prises .

BUT after a while he began to buy and sell stones from a controvercial japanese miner- seller /mate with a 330 listings on Ebay /
I also see much softer koppas that suspiciously look collected from the pilles
Those are only my thinkings so i may be whrong But i see less and less of those hard old stones from the old time .