Thread: Norton Waterstone Starter Kit

Spinsheet--you want to achieve the simplest possible bevel, the one you get when only the spine and your bevel itself touch the hone. The bevel has two sides, and you want the two sides to meet in a single straight line that goes the length of the blade.

In the diagrams above, you only want one thing: the steel that's colored blue. Everything else goes.

Appreciate, of coarse, that the blue section is the very edge. There's a whole width of blade between the spine and the edge that will not touch the hone.

Thanks, that made sense.

I went ahead and flattened my stone, wow, they were not even close to flat. I put pencil marks on then and the middle of the stone cut long before I finally got the edges to start getting cut. I went ahead and honed a razor using the pyramid system and then went for a test shave. The first 1/4 of the blade would not cut hair but the back 3/4 as good a job as my working razor so I was pretty happy. Any thoughts as to why the first 1/4 of the blade did not sharpen? Could the stone not be flat or was I not holding the razor evenly on the stone? It's possible that part of the razor simply needs more work but I am more inclined to chalk it up to an error on my part.

Hi Spinsheet,

I'm glad to help. To be honest, I was mystified about "bevel setting" for the first few weeks I was learning to hone. It's not something you do honing anything else I know of.

An unevenly keen blade is pretty common as you learn to hone. It's most likely that you weren't holding the razor evenly. By the back 3/4 I assume you mean the 3/4 of the blade closest to the scales. That's the same pattern I had starting out. What's happening is you're putting a little pressure on the blade as you hone, and the pressure is lower out at the far end of the blade. The solution is not to increase the pressure, but to decrease it. Because the edge is as fine as it is, any pressure while honing creates the risk of deforming it. You don't want more pressure out at the tip, you want less pressure in at the heel.

Most honing instructions tell you to place the hone on a counter or table; I prefer to hold mine. That way, my left arm and wrist can work along to keep the blade/hone contact consistent through the stroke. Your stroke is effective at its beginning, but weak at the end. A little twist of your left wrist toward the end of your x-stroke will ensure that the last 1/4 of the blade has the same contact as the rest had. It's not enough twist that you actually move the hone, just enough to keep it in contact as you end the stroke.

That's my personal solution; it's worked for me. Others would probably advise you to make sure your right elbow stays level through the stroke, and that's important advice too. Because I have the freedom of motion under the hone itself, I don't pay that much attention to my right elbow. No, that's a lie--I do keep it at the same level as the hone. But because the hone isn't on a tabletop, I can vary the height of my elbow because I can also vary the height of my hone. Again, a personal solution. I hope some other folks will pitch in with advice, too; what they have to say may work better with the style you're developing.

In my experience, everything about straight shaving boils down to the best ergonomics. Comfortable motions are effective motions.

There is also a slight chance that your hone isn't yet lapped flat. You can verify by lapping it on a different surface--get some wet/dry sandpaper, 300 grit or finer, and put it on a wet piece of glass or polished stone floor tile, then redo the pencil grid and see if you sand it all away at the same time. If you do, then you know two things: your flattening stone is indeed flat, and your uneven honing edge is from your stroke.

You're making good progress if you got any of your blade to shave on such an early attempt. Keep at it, make the fine adustments, keep a light light light touch, and you'll get there.

Good luck and best wishes

I believe the term “Setting the bevel” is a confusing term and the cause for a lot of confusion to new honers. When I learned it was from a barber, who I purchased my razor from new. He called it sharpening the razor, which is what it is. ITS ALL ABOUT THE EDGE

So two things that help new honers are
1. Tape the Spine
2. Sharpie the Bevel

The problems you are experiencing are a result of inconsistent pressure of the blade on the hone or possibly defect of the razor, crooked spine or blade. I suspect pressure. What you need to acquire is muscle memory, how to keep the razor flat on the hone while moving the edge across the hone. Most use too much pressure.

The sharpie, (I like red color very easy to see) allows you to see with the naked eye contact of the edge/bevel on the stone. If the bevel is not touching the stone and removing ink neither is the edge.

The tape protects the spine from too much pressure, use two pieces for 1K you will probably burn through the top layer and more importantly gives you feed back on how much and where you are applying pressure.

What you are trying to achieve on the 1K stone are two things 1. An even bevel from Heel to Toe and 2.a Sharp Edge. Your razor should be sharp at 1 k across the edge. DO NOT progress to 4K until the edge is cutting hair across the whole edge, toe middle & heel.

Lay the spine on your arm and raise the edge ¼ in off your skin and cut a single hair off your arm using a diagonal ¼ stroke. A 1k sharp razor will grab and cut a hair. Test the toe, the middle and the heel. Once you have achieved a sharp edge across the blade do a few more light laps. Dry the bevel and re apply sharpie ink after each inspection.

When you check the bevel look at your tape for even wear, change your tape if you see excessive or uneven wear. You should also use a 20 power loupe, more power is better. I like the radio shack 60/100 glass and lots of light, full sun daylight is best.

Until you know what is happening at the edge you will never get it sharp and shaveable, (two different things).

Once sharp at 1k you are refining the edge at 4 & 8k (shaveable) without damaging your previous work. At this point it is very easy to bugger it up.

Bottom line 4 things you need to add to your kit
1. SHARPIE
2. TAPE
3. MAGNIFICATION
4. PATIENCE

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Bottom line 4 things you need to add to your kit
1. SHARPIE
2. TAPE
3. MAGNIFICATION
4. PATIENTS

Hmm, testing a freshly honed razor on sick people might not be very popular.

You mention using tape on the 1k stone. I assume that carries over to the rest of the stones. If I use tape on one I must use it all the way down the line, is that correct?

Hi Spinsheet,

Euclid's advice to sharpie the bevel is good. I almost suggested it yesterday, but he's done a far better job describing it than I could have.

Yes, if you use tape at the start, you must use it at every grit. It is not necessary when you move on to the strop, though.

Not all tapes are equal (Gack! Do these subtleties never stop?!); the consensus I've heard is that 3M 1700 Temflex is the most abrasion resistant. Super33 is the most expensive, but it's a little gummier and less abrasion resistant. I'm an electrician, and I've experienced the difference in the field. We use 1700 for bulk, temporary/disposable tasks and Super33 for actual finished work that will carry current, or when it's cold and rainy and we're working outside.

I'd suggest just a single layer if you're going to use it at all. Change the tape every time you move from one hone to the next, so you're maintaining the same thickness at the spine--and therefore the same angle at the edge.

If I'm honing for someone else, I ask if they want me to use tape. The main benefit, as Euclid pointed out, is preventing wear on the spine. For my own blades, I don't use it. I did for a while, but found it to be too much of a hassle. It isn't actually that much of a hassle, more like an interruption. Like stopping for a condom, but with far less at stake. If you hone on oil, then it does become a hassle as the tape adhesive turns to goo.

Also, I like the hone line on the spine to have the same fine polish level that I've put on the edge. That's a tiny, tiny cosmetic consideration.

Where I would use tape is on any wedge blade, because that tiny bit of spine elevation really reduces the amount of metal you have to remove to set the bevel and polish the edge.

I hope this isn't all spinning your head. Best wishes and happy honing. If you're really fond of the razor you're working on now, you may want to put it aside and practice on a beater. I did a lot of really regrettable things to a nice Sheffield wedge as I learned to hone. At this point, I'm thinking of how to give it a prosthetic spine.

Why do you think they call it a medical practice?

I have about 10 razors now, including my working razor that I purchased from Bob Keys about 3 years ago. After about 3 days of honing, flattening, stropping, etc. I actually got 3 of those old razors to shave, and shave well I feel, not just cutting hair. I'm quite happy with the results.

There are a couple of razors that simply are not cooperating, they simply won't shave. One I bought at an antique store and it had a slight chip in the cutting edge, you could barely see it but could feel it with your nail. I held that razor 90 degrees to the barbers hone and went back and forth till the nick was gone. You know what that did to the cutting edge. Between that razor and the other that I can't get shaving should I start at a lower grit, maybe 1k instead of 4k? If so, what is the stroke pattern that I should use? Currently I am alternating between 4k and 8k with 15/15-10/10-5/5-3/3-1/3-1/5 and that's done well for most of the razors with the exception of these couple of stubborn ones.

Yep, with those stubborn ones you'll definitely need to drop back to coarser hones. 4k is way too fine to set a bevel, unless you've only worn back the original one a tiny tiny bit. Don't go to 4k until the blade can shave arm hair.

What brand are the stubborn blades, and what grind?

That blade you breadknifed will probably need the most work for the bevel set. If it's a blade you really like, it might be a candidate for taping, 'cause a breadknifed edge is a lot to recover from. If you really, really like it, you might want to consider sending that one out to a pro, who can probably restore the bevel with less hone wear than you're likely to put on it. I wish I'd done that with the wedge I breadknifed. Actually, I wish I'd never breadknifed the poor thing to begin with.

If you ever get a chance to go to a meetup, go go go! Someone there can demonstrate a less destructive method of chip removal than breadknifing. It's an extreme measure. I've done it once, but never again.

If you post pictures of your blades in progress, we can probably give you better suggestions than based on text alone. Make sure we can tell the blade's grind (wedge, hollow, extra-hollow...).