Thread: Sugical Black Arkansas as Touch up Hone

Originally Posted by myersn024

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your trans black? I purchased one from a seller I contacted through eBay, and I've been very pleased with the stone and the edges it produces.

Sure, I hope it's OK to do so on the forum. I got mine from Natural Whetstone Company Home Page

It's an 8x3 1 inch.

So of interest from you guys using this stone; What is your regiment with it? Is it consistent or do you have to keep coming back to the stone? Pics would be nice.

I have played with one on a ton of razors and find it somewhat inconsistent. It tends to feel slippery and I have tried anywhere from 10 to 100 strokes as well as circles and strokes. Sometimes it will hit and sometimes not. I have used it coming off an 8K,10K and 12K with similar results.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by jeffzeitlin

Anyone use and Arkansas surgical black or translucent as a touch up hone - I would be interested in the results. Sorry I posted this in the incorrect forum.

I have had excellent luck using the SB for touch up. It takes about 10 passes with a light slurry and a few with just water and a little stropping. What I like about it best is it is hard to overdo honing using the black or the translucent .
Stingray

Originally Posted by Lynn

So of interest from you guys using this stone; What is your regiment with it? Is it consistent or do you have to keep coming back to the stone? Pics would be nice.

I have played with one on a ton of razors and find it somewhat inconsistent. It tends to feel slippery and I have tried anywhere from 10 to 100 strokes as well as circles and strokes. Sometimes it will hit and sometimes not. I have used it coming off an 8K,10K and 12K with similar results.

Thanks.

Lynn,
Hmmmm...Well I guess I have never used a regiment with the black or the trans. I use it when I have been shaving with a razor and it just doesn't perform quite right after stropping. I just use it when the strop seems to come up short. Never seems to take much to bring it back...and you are right, it doesn't always work.
Stingray

I've been using mine after a full dilluticot with a coticule. Any where from 100 to 150 x strokes with oil or water with a touch of dish soap seems to work well for me.

Here are some pics of the stone.

Ok here's my regiment,when i start with a blunt razor i use silicon carbide stone until it gets to a sharpness i think is ready to go on to the soft ark,then when it's ready onto the hard (testing with finger tips and side of thumb) when it's sharp enough to start catching on hair and slides into skin with no pressure it goes on the surgical black,then it's popping hairs when finished,touch ups are just on the black until popping hairs again and i use nothing but soapy water,if the edge gets damaged i go back to where i can fix it easily,i like the smoothness from the really polished edge so i go onto the black earlier than some others might but i find it goes easier,faster and better using the progression of soft,hard black,if i just polish on the black from a non ark stone it seems to take longer and just doesn't feel right and the slipperiness that Lynn feels is just because the edge is polished,you kind of have to use the stone to feel it but when you start on the black from another stone it's edge is sort of grabby and as you progress it gets smoother and slicker and when it's like oiled glass you know your in the polished zone,then if you go further it will get finer and more polished and then your close to perfection,then i start testing as i go until it's popping hairs and then i have an edge that's just as sharp as using 0.5 micron diamond,0.3 chro ox and 0.1 fe ox and so smooth it's like wiping whiskers off with a stick of butter,it' takes time (almost as long as this post) but it's so worth it,i've only recently starting taking the edges this far in my search for perfection as i bought a Chinese 12k and a natural 15k both extremely fine stones but just couldn't get the edges i wanted so i thought i wonder how far i can go with the black,i'm saving up for a translucent at the moment to see if it's any better than my black and closer to attaining my perfect edge if not atleast i'll have an entire ark set,

Concerning inconsistent success, I found that there are a few things that get in the way when using a true hard Ark.
Superhard steel - like C135. - I needed a bizillion laps to finish one Ti. The edge and bevel 'seemed' to be good, based on feedback and visual inspection, but that blade needed 3x more work. Dame fore Swedes, or any very- hard steel
Trans/ SB arks dont cut, they polish. And they are super hard - even a slight rounding of the bevel means the edge will not contact the stone. Thats why theyre not ideal for touchup stones, 4-5 sessions on leather could mean needing to go to an 8k to remove that curve.
Mid-range honing has to be spot-on. Not just 'good-enough'. Very hard Arks are unforgiving - I akways feel like I need to slmost 'over-hone' (as if there is such a thing) at the 5-8k-ish range to get 'that' Arkie edge.

Normally - I woulg go 1-10k Chosera, then y/g Escher, then S/B Ark. The Escher isnt mandatory, But I found that it helped.

Just curious, Why would you go from a Y/G Escher to a Surgical Black Ark? Isn't the edge off the Escher good as is? I would normally stop there. I have several Ark's myself, including the Trans and SB. I absolutely love them for my Kitchen knives. but Like Lynn said, I've found them to be hit or miss on razors, YMMV.

A well done y/g Escher edge is In fact quite 'good'.
At least for me it is. Thing is - this isn't about good or better - both of which are subjective terms that are impossible to qualify or quantify - it's more about 'different'. The polish from the Ark is quite different than that of an Escher. Well - to me it is.
I used the Y/G to jump to the ark as a crutch initially, it just stuck there for me because I got used to that progression. Maxing out at 10k and going to the Ark works too.

Originally Posted by Gamma

And they are super hard - even a slight rounding of the bevel means the edge will not contact the stone. Thats why theyre not ideal for touchup stones, 4-5 sessions on leather could mean needing to go to an 8k to remove that curve.

Interesting theory.. I disagree totally

For 20+ years I used an Arkie for touch ups on my two straight razors...

That must be some agressive leather you own, or very agressive stropping technique to round the bevel...