Thread: Y/G Escher is as fine as...

I understand how frustrating that can be. I've been there before. I think it was Mueller that said you shouldn't go from a Coticule to an Escher, but a lot of us do anyway.

Out of all the finishers, and I've tried most, Escher is the only one that's consistent, and I'm sure that's why they were labeled and sold as they were. Your Y/G I'm sure is fine. It may take some getting used to, like any other hone. As we like to say, YMMV. You are correct, An Escher is not a Jnat. Escher's provide buttery smooth edges in most cases. It's my finisher of choice, and I have a bunch, like the Legendary Nakayama Maruka Asagi, Maruichi Asagi's, Ozuku's, Shoubudani, Kiita, Suita, etc...and just too many too list.

I'm using Shapton GS stones now, I finish with just a few laps on the 16k, then go to an Escher Y/G to smooth out the edge, to take some of the bite out.

What your describing with the Escher, is how I feel about the Jnats. (Running and Ducking for cover) I think they're way way overated imo. Too many lapps needed, too many stones needed, pre polishers, and Nagura, etc....Then you have to watch out for all the counterfit stones. I feel sorry for new guys just starting out, and trying to wade through all that to get a good Jnat. It's just too much, then the cost...Some of these stones cost $1800.00, for a rock, and you can probably get the same edge off a diamond treated strop for about $50.00. Most people wouldn't know the difference in the two especially if you mellow it out with some crox.

All you need is a good set of synthetics, Norton, Naniwa, Chosera, Shapton or even Spyderco, and then some crox to smooth out the blade in lieu of an Escher.

At the very least, You'll have no trouble selling that 9x2 Escher for what you paid if you decide you don't like it.

Originally Posted by Piet

I suspect even the best Eschers can be topped by some Jnats.

Blasphemy !!!

Just kidding, I imagine you're probably right ...

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Blasphemy !!!

Just kidding, I imagine you're probably right ...

You know, I think it's personal preference. Some guys like the way a Jnat edge feels when they shave, other's like a Coti edge, and still other's, like an Escher edge.

It's like Pizza, It's all good, Some are just different than others.....

Personally i feel that with honing its never enough, always looking for more, always want to try the latest new technique or stone. Many might feel disapointed on the new system or stone, and others will praise it as the ultimate! Surely the first shave ready razor from my own honing would not be up to par today! Since lately all my honing has been followed with CBN and i personally think its fantastic but wait give me 6 months and im sure it will be something else!
P.S. Recently heard a lot of good thing about the Spyderco UF with .1 micron iron oxide!

Also from Sham was the thought that the escher/thuri is more demanding of the user than the jnats. I'm not qualified to say, but one black thuri, I thought was about 5-6k. 5 months later it was easily equalling my best edges from the Nani 8k. Then, a y/g thuri took some time, but delivers well now. I'd say give it some time.

The prev. owner of my y/g thuri was unable to get joy when he used slurry. I've been able to pretty reliably. This particular stone can give a 'dead' smooth feel, which I don't like. With very misty slurry, I get a little more feel of the edge. You have nothing to lose by playing w/ it for a while. Circles, backstrokes - try it all.

Originally Posted by Martin103

Many might feel disapointed on the new system or stone, and others will praise it as the ultimate!

Perfect example,for me, is the Spyderco UF. All I got out of that stone was frustration. Not for lack of trying either. So DaveW likes his UF a lot and doesn't seem to like his y/g which is my go to finisher. Why God made apples and oranges I guess. Different strokes for different folks.

If I'd have taken the spyderco out of the box, I would've thought that it was the devil. It had mill marks on it and I lapped it dry for a very long time before I got them out. Then it was super aggressive. I would've still thought it was the devil. After using it for chisels and plane blades for a while and completely knocking the teeth of of it, it's right where I want it. It barely removes anything and with water it is so super fine that it is nearly impossible to get a bad edge with it. It's like an arkansas stone in that respect, the binder is so strong it doesn't let go of the abrasive and it gets duller and duller and more toward polish and less toward hone.

I appreciate hones like that, so the Y/G might not be for me. That might be why I like the japanese natural so much, too. I'll give the stone a few months maybe, unless I can find a good trade for a high quality japanese stone. No reason to twaddle with what doesn't turn you on when you already know what does. Especially if you like to go just straight off the stone with leather only (and I like to do that), and you know you have finer naturals that still leave a comfortable edge.

I have to try a frictionite edge tomorrow, else I'd try the dry honed thuri edge. I dry honed a different razor on the thuri tonight, one that was already finished, and it does feel like a little bit more keenness. But I can do that on any number of stones that I have. I could be happy with any hones, straight off a coti is fine, which until the latest rash, that's what I've been doing. Unlike some of the above comments, which I can't tell what they're actually intending to imply, I prefer the interest factor of the stones edge instead of knocking it smoother with chromium oxide, but I don't for a second contest that the chromium oxide is a cheap way to get an edge that is definitely keener by a half notch vs. what I get off hones.

Originally Posted by DaveW

... fill in the blank.

I've had 2 Eschers come thru my hands, a dark blue & an exe Y/G. The dark blue was coarser than my Shoubudani Suita & the Y/G was hard to tell apart from the Suita. The Suita is my pre polisher but I could shave off any of these stones or even an 8k for that matter.
If you're Spydie is to your liking atm changing to a new stone will necessitate a new approach. My Asagi finisher is almost as hard as my Spydie but much finer & faster. You'd probably hate it. I've never liked the shave off my UF but maybe I need to run a few chisels over it. YMMV is probably appropriate here.

I've always figured the Spydero's were popular among the knife enthusiasts....?
I've read quite bit about them on those forums, not so much on here.

Originally Posted by DaveW

It barely removes anything and with water it is so super fine that it is nearly impossible to get a bad edge with it. It's like an arkansas stone in that respect, the binder is so strong it doesn't let go of the abrasive and it gets duller and duller and more toward polish and less toward hone.

Dave, you've described the source of my frustration with the UF better than I could from memory. To me that was hone hell. OTOH, the relative speed of the y/g, and the comfortable edge I get from it is just perfect .... for me. Gary Haywood, pro barber, and honer said the y/g was too "crisp" an edge. He prefers his coticules.

Now me, I found the y/g perfect while he shapton pro 15k and certainly the 30k were too crisp for me. I guess we hunt around until we find what we like and all of us aren't hunting the same thing.