Thread: Y/G Escher is as fine as...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Each razor and face are going to have a perfect combination on the hones that will bring forth an edge that is the max that razor can give, chasing the edge is to find that combination...

This is why I'm more than happy stopping with my translucent Arkie. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy trying different stones as much as the next guy, but my translucent seems to be the perfect stone for how I like my edges.

Originally Posted by mainaman

I am getting great edge off the hone, never felt the need to go to the super fine grits, IMO those are crutches.

Like Stefan and DaveW I tend to stick with the edge off of my hone of choice. For me it is the y/g or b/g escher. I have tried a lot of different hones and I will be the first to admit that I could shave comfortably ,for the rest of my life, with an edge off of the Norton 8k followed by 10 round trips on chrom-ox. I prefer the edge off the y/g to that I've had off of other hones. J-nat included. Not 'sharper' necessarily but 'just right' for my particular needs. Nothing wrong with using paste, spray, abrasive film .... whatever works to give each individual the edge they prefer AFAIC.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Shsssh let's keep that between us. New guys ought to have to spend at least as many $ as we did to figure that out.

They'll need to start with selling their used car instead of trading it in the next time! I figure that over the last 6 years, between woodworking and shaving, I've been through at least $5,000, though I have probably recovered about $1,000 selling off stones that I'm no longer using.

No matter how many times I get a sharper edge with chromium oxide, I'll probably rarely use it. There is something satisfying about pushing the stones as far as you can get them to go. Intellectually, it is a lot more satisfying, too, the something for nothing feel you get when you get a very nice edge off of a natural stone that has fairly large particles.

Originally Posted by DaveW

No matter how many times I get a sharper edge with chromium oxide, I'll probably rarely use it. There is something satisfying about pushing the stones as far as you can get them to go. Intellectually, it is a lot more satisfying, too, the something for nothing feel you get when you get a very nice edge off of a natural stone that has fairly large particles.

I'm not a fisherman but I think a good analogy is catching a 30 pound fish with 5 pound test line. Pushing the stone as far as you can get it and then trying again and again until you see if it is you or the stone. A sport within itself. Not everybody's cup of tea but for those of us who are into it, like you said, very satisfying when we get it.

Perhaps the other thing that happens is that once the HAD hits an equilibrium the edges off the stones start to train you, rather than the other way around. You get used to the edges you get, start preferring them, start adjusting your shaving technique to suit the edge and so on. There's nothing wrong with that of course, as long as the edges do their thing and shave well, and in fact may be the desirable equilibrium state - the perfect balance between a man, his edges, and his hones. Different stones, razors, experience levels may tinker with the location of that equilibrium point, but so long as that point is located in the "good" regions of the shaving graph, it's all good!

James.

The stones, at least the japanese barber hone that I mention, are about the last step I can go before I get any weepers. As in I can sever hair with them with or against the grain, but no weepers, at all.

The training edges comment is try, and dare I say it, but as you become a daily shaver, you can deal with a consistent edge better than you could when you started and had to have a very sharp edge to prevent catches, etc.

The consistent edge if it starts uniform will stay that way for a very very long time on a good clean broken in strop. 50 shaves or more. When I was a powder shaver, I was constantly guessing whether or not I needed to go refresh the edge because I was used to that straight off the powder feel.

But now it's the 50 shave edge, the comfortable one that doesn't cause weepers even if you need to shave quickly, and one that feels the same every day off the leather. No thinking about it, no pulling the first stroke halfway down your cheek, having a distaste for the feel of it and pausing and slumping your shoulders.

Originally Posted by mainaman

I am getting great edge off the hone, never felt the need to go to the super fine grits, IMO those are crutches.

I don't know if I'd go as far as calling pastes and sparys a crutch Stefan, but to each his own. Many guys, especially new guys may not be able to afford these expensive natural stones, Escher and Jnats especially. Pastes, sprays and films will get you there on the cheap. I know for me, some edges are too keen, Some Jnats, Shapton 16k, and a maybe a few others. I like finishing off with the Escher to kind of smooth out the edge. Crox works well too...

I really like the .50 diamond spray on wool felt, crox on leather, and the CBN. I've used CBN liquid on a PHIG before with interesting results. It's just another medium. I don't particually care for the abrasive films, but I think they're fine to use. I think a lot of guys look down on pastes and sprays like cheating. I don't think that's something we want to convey.

Originally Posted by zib

I don't know if I'd go as far as calling pastes and sparys a crutch Stefan, but to each his own. Many guys, especially new guys may not be able to afford these expensive natural stones, Escher and Jnats especially. Pastes, sprays and films will get you there on the cheap. I know for me, some edges are too keen, Some Jnats, Shapton 16k, and a maybe a few others. I like finishing off with the Escher to kind of smooth out the edge. Crox works well too...

I really like the .50 diamond spray on wool felt, crox on leather, and the CBN. I've used CBN liquid on a PHIG before with interesting results. It's just another medium. I don't particually care for the abrasive films, but I think they're fine to use. I think a lot of guys look down on pastes and sprays like cheating. I don't think that's something we want to convey.

Rich,
notice I said super fine pastes, such as the 0.125 CBN and I believe may be even lower. I have nothing against 0.5 diamond spray I like the edges off it, but I do not get improvement after my finisher anymore. What I mean by crutches is of one has to go down to 0.1 or 0.05 CBN to get the edge, it just means the razor has to be worked more on the 8k lvl and up, assuming the bevel had been set correctly.

Originally Posted by mainaman

I am getting great edge off the hone, never felt the need to go to the super fine grits, IMO those are crutches.

Ill take the crutches for now, im definately not going to chase a jnat that can deliver the same results they are way to expensive to chase a good one. Nevertheless i would very much like to have a couple to experiment with them. A member here honed a razor for me on a jnat and the edge
is very nice and smooth, but that said the same razor i honed previously on thuri followed with cbn and the edge was just as good or perhaps better, with very good edge retention.

I have what was sold to me as a translucent black arkansas stone, and out of the stones that I've used and own it provides me the sharpest and longest lasting edges. However, it is more than a little crisp on my face, and it takes several shaves to mellow out. Recently I purchased a small dark blue E&Co. stone that I go to after my arkie for about 15 or 20 strokes. After that, I find the edge to be right where I like it. I also tried the E&Co after both my 8k Norton and my coticule, and I was not impressed with the edge at all........ So, to reiterate what some other members have already touched on, the Escher isn't a magical stone. You have to bring your A-game to the Escher to get its full benefit.