Thread: Y/G Escher is as fine as...

Originally Posted by riooso

Great posts and very good reading from a lot of guys that really know their stuff.




I am curious about your feeling about your fine pastes perspective. I am by no means questioning your statement I am just wondering about the context. I like the edges that I get off my finisher but what I find is that using a light CBN slurry as a final step gives me just the right balance of aggressiveness and smoothness that I really like. It is an almost imperceptible change in the edge.


Just wondering.


Thanks,
Richard

super fine compounds can mask inadequate edge is all I am saying.

Originally Posted by IamSt8ght

IMO, Eschers are a little overrated in some respects. They are cool in that they are, at some levels, old school, so to speak, but today's synthetic hones are way more consistent in their performance and you know what to expect. I am sure you know this more me, but that is my thought, at least.

This is right on!! By synthetic though I am talking the Shapton and superstones or other Japanese Syn. I own a set of nortons and they are good but not finishers. My opinion.
Stingray

Originally Posted by eleblu05

+1 to the 12k edge i go up to 16k then to my escher never fails

I have 5 eschers and I have never found any natural that will improve a 12k superstone or 16k shapton.

Stingray

Originally Posted by stingray

I have 5 eschers and I have never found any natural that will improve a 12k superstone or 16k shapton.

Stingray

I guess it depends on the natural? I think a lot of the Jnat user's may disagree with you, but you're correct in the sense that you can most definetly get an awesome edge and shave off both of those stones. Improve is a broad term in this hobby. I think the perfect edge should feel like a velvet squegee on your skin. I usually do a few laps on the Escher after the Shapton 16k, You should try it. Lot's of guys find the Shapton 16k edge to be harsh to shave off, so they go to crox or Escher for smoothing. Everyone is different, and had different skint textures, hone's differently, etc...You get the point.

As far as Escher goes, I think it'a a matter of preference. What I like to, you may not, and vice versa. That's what cool about this hobby, lot's of choices. I've had the opportunity to try many stones. I'm always surprised by how much you can get out of a single stone.
Take Glen and Lynn's "one stone honing" for instance.

Right now, I'm testing 3 stones from South Africa for MichaelC. One of them is just outstanding. Hands down beats the Escher, and most of the Jnats I've used. Has to be south of 12k. It leaves a very keen edge, and uber smooth. Just a pleasure to shave with. It's my finsiher of choice right now. I've tested it on several blades, and I get the same results. I'll have to post some pics. I haven't even tested the other two yet.

One thing I do not do, is use a microscope. I go by feel. I'm not concerned with scratch patterns, etc...sometimes I use a loupe to check out the bevel, My eyes have some milage on them. I'm getting up there in years. I think Glen posted earlier in this thread about old time Barbers. They probably had a Barber's hone, maybe a Coticule or an Escher. They would just touch up the blade, probably did a few swipes on the stone prior to the shave. Anything more than that, They'd send the blade out to a "Cutler"

Originally Posted by stingray

I have 5 eschers and I have never found any natural that will improve a 12k superstone or 16k shapton.

Stingray

Escher will at least smooth a 12/16k edge IME.
Saying that no natural will improve a 12k or 16k edge is a bit premature IMO, I have tried many Jnats that improve 12k edge. May be the Jnat(s) you have or tried were not in the right fineness range to improve your edges.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Escher will at least smooth a 12/16k edge IME.
Saying that no natural will improve a 12k or 16k edge is a bit premature IMO, I have tried many Jnats that improve 12k edge. May be the Jnat(s) you have or tried were not in the right fineness range to improve your edges.

I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. It is also what each individual's definition of 'improved' is. For me the edge I get from my y/g or b/g escher is perfect. The edge I get off a 12 or a 16k synthetic is too much of a good thing for me. As Gary Haywood sometimes says, "too crisp." So if that is the kind of edge you prefer, you'll prefer a hone that will deliver that edge. Different strokes for different folks.

Originally Posted by zib

I guess it depends on the natural? I think a lot of the Jnat user's may disagree with you, but you're correct in the sense that you can most definetly get an awesome edge and shave off both of those stones. Improve is a broad term in this hobby. I think the perfect edge should feel like a velvet squegee on your skin. I usually do a few laps on the Escher after the Shapton 16k, You should try it. Lot's of guys find the Shapton 16k edge to be harsh to shave off, so they go to crox or Escher for smoothing. Everyone is different, and had different skint textures, hone's differently, etc...You get the point.

As far as Escher goes, I think it'a a matter of preference. What I like to, you may not, and vice versa. That's what cool about this hobby, lot's of choices. I've had the opportunity to try many stones. I'm always surprised by how much you can get out of a single stone.
Take Glen and Lynn's "one stone honing" for instance.

Right now, I'm testing 3 stones from South Africa for MichaelC. One of them is just outstanding. Hands down beats the Escher, and most of the Jnats I've used. Has to be south of 12k. It leaves a very keen edge, and uber smooth. Just a pleasure to shave with. It's my finsiher of choice right now. I've tested it on several blades, and I get the same results. I'll have to post some pics. I haven't even tested the other two yet.

One thing I do not do, is use a microscope. I go by feel. I'm not concerned with scratch patterns, etc...sometimes I use a loupe to check out the bevel, My eyes have some milage on them. I'm getting up there in years. I think Glen posted earlier in this thread about old time Barbers. They probably had a Barber's hone, maybe a Coticule or an Escher. They would just touch up the blade, probably did a few swipes on the stone prior to the shave. Anything more than that, They'd send the blade out to a "Cutler"

I do use a microscope but am thinking of just sharpening and stropping and then shave. Sometimes I think the microscope is giving me way too much info. Thanks for the above...you have given me food for thought


two other things:
One ...can you give me MichaelC's address
Two...does he leave his door unlocked

Stingray

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. It is also what each individual's definition of 'improved' is. For me the edge I get from my y/g or b/g escher is perfect. The edge I get off a 12 or a 16k synthetic is too much of a good thing for me. As Gary Haywood sometimes says, "too crisp." So if that is the kind of edge you prefer, you'll prefer a hone that will deliver that edge. Different strokes for different folks.

Jimmy you are correct, I think in terms of refining the scratch pattern more than feeling, but in the end feeling is what counts.

Originally Posted by zib

One thing I do not do, is use a microscope. I go by feel. I'm not concerned with scratch patterns, etc...sometimes I use a loupe to check out the bevel, My eyes have some milage on them. I'm getting up there in years. I think Glen posted earlier in this thread about old time Barbers. They probably had a Barber's hone, maybe a Coticule or an Escher. They would just touch up the blade, probably did a few swipes on the stone prior to the shave. Anything more than that, They'd send the blade out to a "Cutler"

1+++...I agree completely Zib! I've always thought that a microscope was a redundant piece of equipment...Just IMHO! I wonder how the SR shavers and Barbers from the last few hundred years ever managed to get along without them...

To me anything other than a nice smooth shave is all 'Hobby'. I'm way more interested in the aesthetic part of this endeavor rather than the scientific. I've got 'RAD, HAD, and Every Other Acronym' that relates to this hobby. Boxes of razors and hones etc. But as with Glen and Lynn have suggested, more often than not I find myself using the one hone method and a series of slurry stones (Naguras) to get the 'velvet squeegee' feel as you so eloquently describe it. Be it an Escher or a JNAT. Yes...it's not as fast...but I just like to hone. For me...it's the most relaxing part of my day. Everything else in life seems to melt away when it's just me, my hone, and a blade.

Each to their own...

Originally Posted by zib

Right now, I'm testing 3 stones from South Africa for MichaelC. One of them is just outstanding. Hands down beats the Escher, and most of the Jnats I've used. Has to be south of 12k. It leaves a very keen edge, and uber smooth. Just a pleasure to shave with. It's my finsiher of choice right now. I've tested it on several blades, and I get the same results. I'll have to post some pics. I haven't even tested the other two yet.

"

Zib, are you talking about the "silkvein" stone or is this something totally different?
Whatever it is sounds very interesting for sure.