Thread: Shapton 12K giving worse edge than Norton 8K

Sticking to the 8K for now is a good idea, when time comes to move on to the 12K do a lot less strokes, I've been using the Shapton 12K for a while now and have found that 10-20 strokes is enough on most razors.

Originally Posted by HollyGates

Thanks for the tips everyone. I tend to think the bevel is ok, since it just got put in as part of me making the razor in the first place. Of course that doesn't mean its not poorly done!

I have not tried, but I don't think I would say the edge off the 8K is shave ready. It gets reasonable after the crox and stropping, but as mentioned above that is probably a band aid for poor honing. So I guess I shouldn't even be thinking about the 12K until I can get a good edge off the 8K. Still, it did seem like if anything it should get better rather than worse after the 12K. But one mystery at a time I suppose. I'll keep working on getting good results from the 8K.

The higher you polish without a good foundation the smoother the edge gets but perceived sharpness drops if the 2 sides of the bevel don't meet optimally. The problem is earlier than 8k or 12k.
It is odd tho if you lose the polish after 12k. My experience is opposite to that.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

The higher you polish without a good foundation the smoother the edge gets but perceived sharpness drops if the 2 sides of the bevel don't meet optimally. The problem is earlier than 8k or 12k.
It is odd tho if you lose the polish after 12k. My experience is opposite to that.

I wonder if pressure could have something to do with that ? Or possibly grit carried over from the coarser stones to the 12k ? I'm anal about cleaning the blade before going to the next grit, and keeping the stones isolated from each other.

Originally Posted by Bruno

If you want to learn honing on high grit stones, pastes are a crutch. IThey will hurt your learning experience more than help you.

I thought pastes just cleaned up the edge from loose debris. I'm confused by this because I'm still in that stage where I'm not getting consistently good results every time. I got a vintage razor recently and have honed it three times, and I'm still not satisfied. On the other hand, I can't believe how long the edge on other razors is lasting.

Originally Posted by zib

I've heard that before "Pastes are a crutch". I use the Shapton GS series for honing, up to 16k. I get great edges, but I don't like the way the blade feels coming off the 16k, and from what I understand, I'm not alone. I normally "chill it out" with some crox, or an Escher.

As far the 30k goes, which I don't own, I hear you can do as little as 2 strokes on it....You don't need much.
The Shaptons are fast.

+1
The shaptons are fast...

+1
The Norton 4k/8k hone is a winner.

Some place around 8k or 10k you are no
longer improving the edge for cutting whiskers
as much as polishing the edge for shaving.

One thought is that the Shaptons remove steel
and other hones tend to burnish the surface.
A Shapton edge is sharp much in the way that
a Feather edge is harsh/sharp. Us them with
a very light touch and not too many laps.

My advice is to revisit the Norton 4k/8k honing
thread and explore any hone finer than 8k as
a hone to make the edge strop ready to match
your face.

To be fair I do like the Shapton 16k edge but finish strop
it with a very dirty strop. i.e. the strop canvas has quite
a bit of 0.5 and 0.25 micron spray on it from months ago.

From personal experience, the shapron Pro 12k is finer than norton 8k, it leaves great edge, it is very fast so less is more.
You may need to refine your technique, make sure the edge off 8k is indeed maxed out before you go to the 12k.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I wonder if pressure could have something to do with that ? Or possibly grit carried over from the coarser stones to the 12k ? I'm anal about cleaning the blade before going to the next grit, and keeping the stones isolated from each other.

Maybe the op can weigh in on this but all I can think is maybe the 12k is leaving fine scratches that become visible on the polished edge off the Norton. The Norton having a more friable abrasive giving the appearance of a better polish. The more variation in particle size the smoother the look. I don't have a Norton but know well this effect with King stones. Work a bevel on a King 1200 then run that same bevel on a DMT 1200 for a few strokes. You'll see scratches no doubt.

Jnats can work this way too. Some will give the nice hazy kasumi finish, others with a very hard & even particle size can leave tiny scratches if used with water alone. It's all cosmetics tho.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Maybe the op can weigh in on this but all I can think is maybe the 12k is leaving fine scratches that become visible on the polished edge off the Norton. The Norton having a more friable abrasive giving the appearance of a better polish. The more variation in particle size the smoother the look.

Jnats can work this way too. Some will give the nice hazy kasumi finish, others with a very hard & even particle size can leave tiny scratches if used with water alone. It's all cosmetics tho.

+1 on all, the 12k seems to leave more scratches on the surface than my 10k SS but that does not affect the shave.

Oz I have same observations on Jnats as well.

Is there much difference between the Shapton Pro 12k, and the Naniwa 12k?

Nahh they're both yellow.
Seriously tho I have only used an SS12k a couple of times so can't really say but the Shap is certainly one of the softer stones in that set. I used to jump 5k -12 k routinely with the shaps. The 8k is not essential but nice if you like progressive honing.
Maybe the SS works the same. ???