Thread: Shapton 12K giving worse edge than Norton 8K

When I had it I really liked the naniwa 12k. I would probably have kept it but I was selling them as a set. The Shapton 12k was real good too. It did that auto slurry thing so I guess it is pretty soft. It is my understanding that it was only meant for the Japanese market and the 15k pro is for the USA market. I had both and they looked and performed identically. Identical even under my 40x stereo scope. Not a true measure but I thought they were the same with different labels.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

When I had it I really liked the naniwa 12k. I would probably have kept it but I was selling them as a set. The Shapton 12k was real good too. It did that auto slurry thing so I guess it is pretty soft. It is my understanding that it was only meant for the Japanese market and the 15k pro is for the USA market. I had both and they looked and performed identically. Identical even under my 40x stereo scope. Not a true measure but I thought they were the same with different labels.

Interesting, I never had auto slurry problem with my Shapton Pro 12k.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Interesting, I never had auto slurry problem with my Shapton Pro 12k.

It wasn't a problem .... but it did create swarf, not steel, in the water fairly quickly.

I've been using the Shapton GS stones. I was thinking of throwing the Nani 12k in the progression. The 8k to 16k is a big jump....

Originally Posted by mainaman

+1 on all, the 12k seems to leave more scratches on the surface than my 10k SS but that does not affect the shave.

Oz I have same observations on Jnats as well.

I almost said me too then reflected...

After lapping a Shapton 12k flat does scratch
a bit. After rinsing and honing multiple razors
it stops scratching and gives a lot more polish.
It still cuts lots of steel based on the swarf loading.

I have started to use the previous Shapton to
rub the surface of the next in a progression so the
surfaces stay smooth and flat. Flat is not a
big issue.

I have tried wiping them clean with an OLD hard Carborundum 101
barber hone under water when the swarf gets too thick. That works well.
I also have a small fine ceramic DMT stone for swarf cleaning. Cleaning
not flat lapping...

Rinse clean.... that is important if polish is important.

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

I thought pastes just cleaned up the edge from loose debris. I'm confused by this because I'm still in that stage where I'm not getting consistently good results every time. I got a vintage razor recently and have honed it three times, and I'm still not satisfied. On the other hand, I can't believe how long the edge on other razors is lasting.

Honing paste has abrasive particles, just like a stone.
Any leather surface has some (minimal) amount of sag, meaning that it will 'round' the bevels, making them a bit more teardrop shaped. The bevel gets just a tiny bit steeper near the edge, and this will hide the fact that the bevels didn't meet optimally before.

This is not bad by definition, but it will hide the underlying problem for you. And if you are trying to learn honing with nothing but stones, that is a bad thing because you don't get the feedback you need.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

I have started to use the previous Shapton to
rub the surface of the next in a progression so the
surfaces stay smooth and flat. Flat is not a
big issue.

Wow haven't heard that one in a few years, this was the old way of cleaning, flattening and most importantly smoothing up the surface of the hones on here...

When we were mostly all honing with just the Nortons we wanted to get the most out of them so we had tons of "tricks".. Understand that even the DMT's were not that popular, and many of us used the Norton lapping hone to lap the other hones "flat" after that we would use the 1k against the 4k to smooth and polish both, then the 4k against the 8k to do the same... You had to take extra care to rinse and remove all the grit before honing, but it worked rather well... Later on I started using an Akansas stone to do the same and it worked even better and faster for me

High Grit Shaptons can cause chips if you don't use them correct, it can take more practice to know when to stop and not over hone or break down the edge.

Originally Posted by Disburden

High Grit Shaptons can cause chips if you don't use them correct, it can take more practice to know when to stop and not over hone or break down the edge.

Knowing when to stop is generally important, even with other stones. With the pros, pressure is the nemesis. They literally are a case of "let the stone do the work".