Thread: Jnat finishing

Only you can know for sure, though experimentation--there are a lot of factors that come into play. On my stone (which is a fast cutter for a finisher), I find using a diamond plate offers more control & less chance of overcooking the edge, while my tomo is actually even faster cutting but is easy to overdo it.

If I had to guess, I would say there is probably more variation in particle size when using the DMT, along w/ a controlled, slow release of fresh particles into the mix, which limits how small the average mix can get, whereas the tomo does not. That being said, finishing on DMT slurry is noticeably sharper & smoother than crox. Tomo slurry on mine is often too much of a good thing.

Here's some empirical, non scientific, maybe even pleonastic statements.

I shave off an Atoma 1200 diamond plate slurry on my Nakayama Asagi.
I can also shave off the same stone & a fine Tomo slurry but I won't shave off any Nagura stage.
So I say all Nagura, except a Tomo are coarser than a diamond plate slurry & how you get to end game does'nt much matter.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Here's some empirical, non scientific, maybe even pleonastic statements.

I shave off an Atoma 1200 diamond plate slurry on my Nakayama Asagi.
I can also shave off the same stone & a fine Tomo slurry but I won't shave off any Nagura stage.
So I say all Nagura, except a Tomo are coarser than a diamond plate slurry & how you get to end game does'nt much matter.

Why have hones then, why not get all dmts to 8k and then use 1 dia slurry or tomo?

Originally Posted by bill3152

Why have hones then, why not get all dmts to 8k and then use 1 dia slurry or tomo?

Because...
1. I would have to buy a set of DMT's & TBH i don't like them, mainly cause they leave deep scratches.
2. DMT 8k scratches may be 8k wide but they're about 4k deep & I don't want to waste time & finishing stone.


Edit: I just remembered I did buy a set of DMT's & tried this about 5 years ago. Buying a set of waterstones was like putting a fourth wheel on a car that only had 3 . Worked much better

Originally Posted by Deckard

Anyone who refers to themselves as a scientist "is one". There is a cure for it though.
If I kick you in the nuts, does it hurt? Scientifically speaking of course.

That's as scientific as it needs be Tc

If you cannot see the difference with a microscope after the final honing stage, the preceding stages become irrelevant apart from the fact that they somehow create a certain geometry. If 'the feeling' of it becomes a factor, then simply do a double blind test to see if you're feeling it because it is real, or if you're feeling it because that 100$ bottle of wine MUST be better than the 10$ bottle of wine.

Fwiw, with malt whisky arguments such as this is common. That is why one club I know has switched to blind tastings exclusively. Because in double blind tests, experts often come to surprising conclusions. Tell them a certain whisky is 35 years old, and people will taste the subtleties. Tell them it is 5 years old, and they will say it is still a bit immature. Same with stones.

Bravo Bruno. This would be the end all of testing.

My take on honing changed when I went to a honing meetup and met Nelson(bayamontate). At the time I was using dia plates like everyone else. The edges were great but compared to what? Anyway having shaved one of his edges I immediately knew thats what I wanted. So I emulated what he does and have been able to improve what I get from a dia plate little by little using naguras. Now when I hone a razor, I judge the shave. And I hone and shave almost constantly, almost a fresh edge every day. Why? Because 3 months ago I was nailing one of 3. Thats objective dont you think? Im using the same stone and naguras and 2 of the 3 arent great. So thats what I do, I think im at 2 out of 3 now. I always start at the chosera 1k, as I dont want to further refine the same edge over and over. Anyway I honed one yesterday, with 1200 atoma slurry. Sorry to say it wasnt a great shave, it was plenty good and sharp and smoothness was good but not great. Needless to say it was on par with what I was doing last year. The only judge I have is myself, and doing it this way I expect to nail every one and improve even more. The AHA! edges are never with a dia plate IMO, they are with naguras for me anyway.

Originally Posted by bill3152

The AHA! edges are never with a dia plate IMO, they are with naguras for me anyway.

The atoma slurry is made from your topnotch superfine finisher. Why then is a coarser nagura a better option ? Or is your Tomo finer than your finisher ?

You may be creating too much slurry with your atoma. I cannot easily see slurry when I use my atoma on my finisher but some is present. 5 light circles with the atoma is all i use.
Your stone may finish better on water alone. You may be using too much pressure with the atoma.

You may be able to improve both your nagura & atoma finished razors with 2-3 strokes on a Gok 12 or on the finisher in a dry state.

Just food for thought.

Thanks for the tip. I have the suehiro 20k, and had the nani 12, not interested in these edges. The last slurry I finish on is any one of 30 tomo naguras I have, these are not coarse stones at all. And using yae botan, botan, tenjou, TBn, mejiro, chu, koma and 1 or 2 tomos will refine much more than a one size fits all atoma slurry. JMHO. It does take time though and I think most are not interested in spending it.