Thread: Some edge pics @200x

IIRC it's a Celestron Discovery. I modified it for higher magnification - at a 1:1 pixel ratio it's about 240x. The above image is about 1.1mm in actual width unmagnified. Setup, focus and lighting are more important than the scope in many cases.

Before this gets any more out of hand, please realize that magnification is not the end all, be all. Unless the surface you are examining is perfectly perpendicular to the scope's line of sight, some areas in the image will be in focus and some will not; but even then there will be a difference from the center to the outer edge of the image. If you see bright reflection off the bevel on one end of the blade and can see the scratches in the bevel on the other end, then there is no chance that the entire blade is in focus.

Even if an image is in focus, resolution will make it appear not to be. High magnification is pointless with inadequate resolution. USB cameras with multi hundred X magnification but with just a few mega pixels cannot provide the resolution to needed to make a sharp image. I'm sorry, but they just cannot.

So here's another re-hash...

Magnification
Resolution and total pixels
Blade angle
Light source angle

They all matter.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Before this gets any more out of hand, please realize that magnification is not the end all, be all. Unless the surface you are examining is perfectly perpendicular to the scope's line of sight, some areas in the image will be in focus and some will not; but even then there will be a difference from the center to the outer edge of the image. If you see bright reflection off the bevel on one end of the blade and can see the scratches in the bevel on the other end, then there is no chance that the entire blade is in focus.

Even if an image is in focus, resolution will make it appear not to be. High magnification is pointless with inadequate resolution. USB cameras with multi hundred X magnification but with just a few mega pixels cannot provide the resolution to needed to make a sharp image. I'm sorry, but they just cannot.

So here's another re-hash...

Magnification
Resolution and total pixels
Blade angle
Light source angle

They all matter.

Agree.
Ron has a microscope that does not have very high a magnification, IIRC under 200x , but the resolutions is spectaculat. It allows to see a ton of detail on a bevel, ad at the edge .
I want one of that quality one day.

Originally Posted by bobski

Neither image was out of focus. I don't understand why you negative everything. It's a lovely image of a nice edge, yet you put shit on it. Mate you are the one with the problem. You never asked a thing about the photo other than to poo poo it. Members deserve a fair go. You are not entitled to embarrass members.

In my opinion you should looks at Oz's remarks as a constructive criticism more than an attack. looking at your first image, if you wanted to show the edge, you are out of focus. That is exactly the reason I dislike my Veho, just too damn hard to get it to focus and stay on focus. Another issue with Veho is they are only 2 MP so the resolution is not very good at high magnification, because you have not enough pixels to fill the field of view. Currently digital scopes go up to 5 MP which provides better resolution even with the same type of optics. If the optics is improved then you will be having a lot better results. Finally many scopes are sold with a stand now, that make s keeping things in focus easier.

Originally Posted by mainaman

Agree.
Ron has a microscope that does not have very high a magnification, IIRC under 200x , but the resolutions is spectaculat. It allows to see a ton of detail on a bevel, ad at the edge .
I want one of that quality one day.

Actually it is under 95x.

The reason that the images are so good is the combination of Zeiss optics and an 18 MP camera. I finally got a cheap LED ring light so the images are even better now!

Originally Posted by Utopian

Actually it is under 95x.

The reason that the images are so good is the combination of Zeiss optics and an 18 MP camera. I finally got a cheap LED ring light so the images are even better now!

At the Iowa meet you did not have the camera set up and I thought what I saw looked spectacular.

My next purchase will be a 5MP scope, I like the Celestron version of it (hopefully the lenses are better than the no name chinese versions). Eventually I want a microscope though.

In that case, without the 1.5x camera insert, the magnification maximum is 63x when looking through the eyepieces.

USB photos are great for documentation and for teaching, as everyone is looking at the same thing. For honing they are not practical, it takes too much time to run back and forth to a scope, every time you want to take a look and really you do not need that much detail for honing issues.

When honing, you need to look at the edge and maybe, the stria on the bevel, if it relates.

Recently on the forum, we have been able to walk new honers through the honing process and address specific issues, on line. All of this benefits new guys with issues hugely, much like when photos were first added to the forum.

Yes, better photos are easier to look at, but they don’t need to be perfect to give information. Light and better scopes do take better photos, but none of it matters, if you don’t know what you are looking at and what it means.

Some folks, put too much emphasis on the condition (shininess) of the bevel, and what counts is the edge. If the edge is not straight, then look at the bevel, often you can trace issues at the edge directly to deep stria on the bevel. You can then work backwards to find the cause of the problem, (often the bevel set).

For a new guy, a USB scope can be a lifeline and a few pics can get him help from across the globe for a $20-30 investment, especially if hands on help is not available.

The problem comes when we try to compare photos and predict shave quality. But for problem solving you don’t need perfect photos.

Check out these post from a new guy, from bevel set to finish. His photos are actually quite good with an inexpensive Veho scope.

Second Try at Honing,
Microchipping
Should I Tackle a Difficult Challenge?

Fair enough Oz, I was simply quite pleased with the way the edge looked, and all we talked about was focus and microscopes. It was a 400x scope, cheap yeah, but this isn't nuclear medicine, we are sharpening a few razors. Anyway, we can move on and I'll have another go at using the scope. Cheers