It actually works on certain rocks, not all but when some have an issue, they should try that.
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It actually works on certain rocks, not all but when some have an issue, they should try that.
Outback - I'll give that a try. Thanks for the suggestion.
Midstone on jnat finishing on coticule, thick stone edition
Attachment 274088
coticule is about 27mm thick and jnat is about 65-68 mm thick
I honed 5 razors, a Twin Duck Special #1, Western States Cutlery, two King razors & a John D. Case. The Case had some tiny gouges in the edge like someone took it & tapped it on a hard corner a couple times. All came out very nice with a thin bevel. I set my bevel with my 1k Chosera, then went to 2k, 3k, 5k & finished on my Snow White. I love that stone. It feels like velvet when honing on it.
Here is a vintage NOS TI Le Scintillant. Unfortunately the etching on the blade had to be removed due to pitting. It is possible that the acid etching process caused the pitting since the other side of the blade was flawless. I'm interested in the performance of the steel and am familiar with this blade.
However the attached partial paperwork came wadded up in the box with the blade. "Hint" Always check for paper work folded up at the bottom of your box. Even if its old newspaper it may have a date or some form of information.
Finish on Salm Coticule.
https://i.imgur.com/c9nwprT.jpg
Final finish on unknown European stone w/ oil.
https://i.imgur.com/JJH1uXW.jpg
Certificate probably used to wrap new razor. Ripped and shoved in the bottom of the box to keep razor from rattling back and forth. This razor had never been honed. So who all is checking out their razor boxes now? Mike
https://i.imgur.com/BKn7wEG.jpg
Good question sir. I've tested at least three grades of La Lunes stamped and graded Fine, Extra Fine and Very Fine.. There are more "types" out there that are not labeled. These all are extremely hard fast cutting stones that I believe were used as natural barber hones back in the day. To Refresh The Edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank;
https://i.imgur.com/xa2Mf42.jpg
Oil only (or dry) as a final finisher. 12 very light passes and check edge. 20 to 30 laps is pushing it. These stones will easily over hone steel unless it is the very best temper. If you think you have a great razor, try pushing the edge as far as it will go on one of these stones and you will know.
Mike
https://i.imgur.com/57ju9Te.jpg
[QUOTE=MODINE;1773091]Here is a vintage NOS TI Le Scintillant. Unfortunately the etching on the blade had to be removed due to pitting. It is possible that the acid etching process caused the pitting since the other side of the blade was flawless. I'm interested in the performance of the steel and am familiar with this blade.
However the attached partial paperwork came wadded up in the box with the blade. "Hint" Always check for paper work folded up at the bottom of your box. Even if its old newspaper it may have a date or some form of information.
Certificate probably used to wrap new razor. Ripped and shoved in the bottom of the box to keep razor from rattling back and forth. This razor had never been honed. So who all is checking out their razor boxes now? Mike
I have found several certificates in coffins that way.
Attachment 274325
The first few razors off the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k, Hart Steel and my Portland blued blade, the Hart was from bevel set up to the SG20K, The Portland was refreshed, first impression, a nice quick hone, not much feedback/feeling with it, (I have always finished on Naturals prior to this hone) after only a few razors I would be hard pressed to say if the edge is any better than the my CF ( I will never part with my CF) but it sure is quicker.
Some morning honing...Got to stay home with my youngest today, hes not feeling well. I had one that need a new bevel and two that just needed touched up. Bevel set was done on a chosera 1k followed by a Norton combo 4k/8k and for two of them I finished on the coti (late model ardennes) and for the last one I finished on the surgical black ark with some oil. I have been tinkering with this ark for some time, I killed a few diamond plates lapping it but finally I was able to get it flat enough and burnished. It is extremely slow but the razor that I finished with today really has a nice polish to it.
Razors had good edge but wanted that oozuku finish. Jaguar took very nice edge first try but I will have to go back for the duck. Might add micro bevel with clear tape for it, it is almost there.
Attachment 274426
Another 5 in and back out on Monday including a TI gnome a diminutive 2/8 a razor I don't see that often, not a razor I enjoy honing or stropping although I will be the first to admit it really did take a very nice edge.
https://i.imgur.com/k2Tn1ag.jpg
Hi Kees;
To answer your question, No. The stone pictured on the paddle is much harder as I understand the rouge de Salm. It is used dry or with oil and is an extremely fine stone. Finer than any J-nat I have used.
Testing here a members unknown natural vintage labeled J-nat. Any accurate translation of the label is welcome.
https://i.imgur.com/KVsUJIW.jpg
Compare with known natural Japanese Tsushima stone.
https://i.imgur.com/U4wVlhz.jpg
With slurry.
https://i.imgur.com/If6ug6D.jpg
Finish and performance is identical to natural mid range Tsushima water stone.
https://i.imgur.com/74tKTLb.jpg
My Tan o Shanter was hone of the day for me today.
Honed up this George Butler Cavendish. And I kept getting a micro chip in the same place at the toe, so a light slurry on this stone sorted that out.
Thats the TAM in the background its about 9 inches so a dam good sized hone.
So glad I have it as it works very well for me.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b710cf7b80.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7cf54ce9a9.jpg
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Honing up a couple Thuri-ly....
A Wosti FBU, and a rolls traveller.
Attachment 274651
alpla444, I love the wedge you have in that George Butler.
B52, that's a nice FBU.
A cleanup from the wilds.
Geneva Cutlery, 9/16 was 5/8.
Lots of chips N devils spit along the edge required a full edge restoration.
One layer tape
1000 Chosera W/Nani dressing stone. ( brown turd ). Makes the Chosera a serious metal eater.! Diluted to water, and set bevel once clear of the smeg.
Washita and water.
8000 Snow White. ( Thanks to engine46, Steve )
Belgium blue.
Finished on a PHIG.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...64ba31cff6.jpg
Stropped, and ready for the morning test shave. [emoji6]
Today's hone.
Set the bevel on the 1k king. Did 5 stropping strokes per side after my half strokes set the edge.
I then ran the razor over my thumb nail.
Proceeded to do 5 stropping strokes on the 6k side of the king. Another run over the thumb nail. 5 more stropping strokes per side and then 2 alternating stropping strokes with light pressure.
This would bring me to the end of an attempt at the Murray Carter method but in his second video he uses a finishing stone.
In this case my finishing stone is the coticule I have been waiting for since spring. I originally purchased a 200x75mm La Veinette from Jarrod at the superior shave but the stone kept flaking off and chipping. So I had to return it to the mine and they sent me this hand selected near kosher beauty of a stone. That's fast and fine. It originally cost me around $450 USD but then with return shipping to Belgium and then a second import fee for the replacement stone this thing cost me near $600 CAD... So I am happy it's what I've been searching for in a coticule after 50+. Fast, fine and massive. I digress.
5 stropping strokes per side and a further 2 alternating on plain water.
15 laps on a leather piece placed on my coticule box.
HHT 4 so far but the real proof will come tomorrow.
Also if you're wondering why I'm using a $5 razor, you can tell where my money goes.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...839f386570.jpg
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I got this Henkels a few years ago in an eBay lot. I finally pulled it out and cleaned it up today. It was butter knife dull so I started with a DMT325. Then Chosera 1k and Nani SS 4-8-12 and finished on my Nakayama Kiita.
Attachment 274725
https://i.imgur.com/QItYfOQ.jpg
Yesterday's honing, R. Bouyges, Albi (France), 6/8, on 'La Nouvelle Veine' coticule, standard dilucot followed by lots of linen (and leather), excellent!
+ family photo (my coticules):
- top row from left: 'La Verte' x 2 (glued to slate); 'La Nouvelle Veine' (natural combo with BBW); 'Les Latneuses' hybrid (2mm of yellow coticule on the other side) - all from Ardennes Coticule.
- bottom row from left; glued to La Lorraine; natural combo with BBW; glued to BBW; glued to BBW - all ye olde stones from flea markets or trades.
Very happy with them except for Les Latneuses and the orange bout where I feel I haven't yet really cracked the code....(surely my fault, not the stones!)
After few razors with average results I hit a home run yesterday. Friodur 72 1/2, bevel set on 1K Chosera followed by Ohira suita. Then koma and 2 tomos on this nakayama habutae I got from So few months back. The stone when dry is almost white. Has some nashiji on one end. Shave was very close and comfortable. ATG on my neck was a piece of cake and zero burn with alum and alcohol aftershave.
Attachment 275037
Attachment 275264
Dalmore blue, was used on the Joseph Rodgers, straight after the Chosera 1k, I do like my naturals, even though I have bought quite a few Synthetics lately.
Nice Dalmore blue Alpha444, I always switch to naturals after a synthetic bevel set to repair and harden the edge for a natural progression. Here is a famous STEP razor on a tamed toxic J-nat which means it contains filaments. It can finish the edge or destroy it if not careful.
Mike
https://i.imgur.com/ABxwZ0Z.jpg
Razor: Rathburn Bros.
4-Stone Progression:
Bevel reset: Shapton 4K Glass with light DN slurry
Mid-Work: Shapton 8K Glass
Finisher #1: Naniwa SS 12K
Finisher #2: Nakayama Kiita with double tomo finish
Strop: TM Spanish Bridle
Attachment 275452
Newly acquired grelot. Razor appeared already sharp, 30 passes on my 5”x2”x1” awesome coticule seems to have done the trick (bevel free of any rust/pitting, nice mirror polish). Will test shave tomorrow
Attachment 275464
A few more over the weekend back out Monday.
https://i.imgur.com/t8xvk2L.jpg
My honing abilities have gotten so much better sense I started that I pulled out the 7 day set and a couple that needed touched up. After honing 10 razors and a shower and test shave with all of them I found them all shave fine. 3 of them could use to go back to the hone as they were not perfect to my liking but still shaved very well. Anyway, 7 out of 10 aint too shabby if I say so myself.
Attachment 275519
The 3 on the right need a little more work.
I came across this coticule while buying a Jnat so picked both. First coticule I ever tried. While waiting for delivery I did some reading here and on the other shaving site. Decided to follow Gary Haywood's recs. The razor was shave ready. I raised some slurry with Atoma 1200, it darkened pretty quickly. Few dilutions to clear water. Then added a layer of tape and did 50 x strokes under running water. The shave was pretty comfy. I like it.
Attachment 275533Attachment 275534
Attachment 275549
The above photo is of my Dovo 6/8 Flowing resting on a wet Shobu Asagi Tamamoku Japanese natural stone. I've shown this stone before and I thought its excellent results were more dumb luck in landing a really good example of a Shobu stone. it was also described as Karasu but you'd need a keen eye to see why. Traditionally I've gone to it from my Naniwa superstone 10k, and spent time on a misty slurry, then strop, shave. Well, I've found a different method, not much different, but a change. I have sensitive skin, but my whiskers are like iron, so I need a sharp blade to get a smooth result, so my synthetic method, was to go through the naniwas and finish on the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. This of course got me a really sharp razor. But the trade off was I found I was getting too many weepers for me to be happy. I was careful with angle, and every fourth shave I'd get a weeper. I've had the Shobu for a while now, and it's just a terrific stone, bench sized I think 207 x 75 x 30mm 1104 gms. Of all the razors I like to shave with, I have some finished on the natural stones and some, basically equal finished on the 20k. Over the last fortnight I took two of my TI's 7/8 C 135 razors, and a Friodur 7/8 stainless and the pictured Dovo Flowing 6/8. All were honed without tape. They were all finished on one of three jnats I use, an Ozuku, and a Wakasa, they were fairly close shavers, but not quite what I wanted. (None gave weepers). I thought about it, and I don't have nagura, I use Atoma 1200 for slurry, and I took those four razors and I taped the spines of the four of them and went to the Naniwa 10k with slurry and honed till I felt I could shave with them, so the change was to add tape. But instead of testing I just went to the Shobu over a couple of days, and I followed the same method. That was to keep the razors taped, one layer, and I created a heavy slurry on the Shobu and I honed each of those razors for a good 40 minutes on a diminsihing slurry, stopping when light and misty. Nothing special really as far as method, but when I shaved with the first one, a TI 7/8 the shave was better than I'd managed previously. I had the sharpeness I needed to get through the iron beard, but the shave was super comfortable, and it just felt great going over the skin. I've now used all four of those razors done with tape two times each. All were sharp and comfortable, and the best thing, no irritation, no weepers. I really spent a lot of time on the Shobu, and used very little pressure, just a consistent stroke.
So I thought, 'Have I just created a micro bevel using the tape at the 10k level, and that is the reason for the jump up in sharpness, the comfort being a direct bi-product of the natural stone.' Well, I'm not sure myself. But these four razors are go to razors for me now, and I have two other 7/8 TI's C135's finished on the Gok 20, and I'm tossing up whether to give one a go and see how my skin handles it or convert it over to the Shobu. I don't know yet. I'd be interested in members opinions, is there anything wrong with the approach I've taken, ie; Tape to 10k to Shobu, or have I crossed an invisible line, making a mistake on my original razors done on any one of the three jnats I have. All I know is that I've written a note attached to the cases of the four I've done with the tape and Shobu noting the method and result. I'll see how long they last I guess. I do enjoy using the shobu, it's a nice stone to use, and the results are very consistent. Great fun.
The above photo is of my Dovo 6/8 Flowing resting on a wet Shobu Asagi Tamamoku Japanese natural stone. I've shown this stone before and I thought its excellent results were more dumb luck in landing a really good example of a Shobu stone. it was also described as Karasu but you'd need a keen eye to see why. Traditionally I've gone to it from my Naniwa superstone 10k, and spent time on a misty slurry, then strop, shave. Well, I've found a different method, not much different, but a change. I have sensitive skin, but my whiskers are like iron, so I need a sharp blade to get a smooth result, so my synthetic method, was to go through the naniwas and finish on the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. This of course got me a really sharp razor. But the trade off was I found I was getting too many weepers for me to be happy. I was careful with angle, and every fourth shave I'd get a weeper. I've had the Shobu for a while now, and it's just a terrific stone, bench sized I think 207 x 75 x 30mm 1104 gms. Of all the razors I like to shave with, I have some finished on the natural stones and some, basically equal finished on the 20k. Over the last fortnight I took two of my TI's 7/8 C 135 razors, and a Friodur 7/8 stainless and the pictured Dovo Flowing 6/8. All were honed without tape. They were all finished on one of three jnats I use, an Ozuku, and a Wakasa, they were fairly close shavers, but not quite what I wanted. (None gave weepers). I thought about it, and I don't have nagura, I use Atoma 1200 for slurry, and I took those four razors and I taped the spines of the four of them and went to the Naniwa 10k with slurry and honed till I felt I could shave with them, so the change was to add tape. But instead of testing I just went to the Shobu over a couple of days, and I followed the same method. That was to keep the razors taped, one layer, and I created a heavy slurry on the Shobu and I honed each of those razors for a good 40 minutes on a diminsihing slurry, stopping when light and misty. Nothing special really as far as method, but when I shaved with the first one, a TI 7/8 the shave was better than I'd managed previously. I had the sharpeness I needed to get through the iron beard, but the shave was super comfortable, and it just felt great going over the skin. I've now used all four of those razors done with tape two times each. All were sharp and comfortable, and the best thing, no irritation, no weepers. I really spent a lot of time on the Shobu, and used very little pressure, just a consistent stroke.
So I thought, 'Have I just created a micro bevel using the tape at the 10k level, and that is the reason for the jump up in sharpness, the comfort being a direct bi-product of the natural stone.' Well, I'm not sure myself. But these four razors are go to razors for me now, and I have two other 7/8 TI's C135's finished on the Gok 20, and I'm tossing up whether to give one a go and see how my skin handles it or convert it over to the Shobu. I don't know yet. I'd be interested in members opinions, is there anything wrong with the approach I've taken, ie; Tape to 10k to Shobu, or have I crossed an invisible line, making a mistake on my original razors done on any one of the three jnats I have. All I know is that I've written a note attached to the cases of the four I've done with the tape and Shobu noting the method and result. I'll see how long they last I guess. I do enjoy using the shobu, it's a nice stone to use, and the results are very consistent. Great fun.[/QUOTE]
What you just described is one way to determine if a stone is a final finisher. While the shave test is important, 100 x magnification will show you much when practiced. (Sorry to say a 30-60x loop is not adequate for this level of finishing) Good job sir.
MIke
Glamour shot. Iwasaki Swedish steel on pre-finished vintage Kato Nakayama Mizu Asagi. (300 laps diluting to thin water consistency) Slurry raised w/ depleted DMT.
https://i.imgur.com/9qRfF4B.jpg
Final finish on unknown French or German hone w/oil to squeeze out the maximum for this blade which will hold the edge (20-25 laps stop). Iwasaki is most awesome steel. I love to look at the edge under 100X magnification.
https://i.imgur.com/AVBYxmW.jpg
Thanks Mike,
I've got the magnification available to have a look, and I will. But, I went through a stage a while back where I was looking at everything under 200x etc and adjusting this and that based on what my scope was telling me. Result ended up with a multitude of differing techniques and I started shaving based on what the scope was telling me. I shared this problem and some mighty eminent honers out there told me to go back to the loupe and hone for my skin and whiskers rather than the scope. Ever since I've gotten back to normal. This latest bit of good honing/shaving might have arrived sans planning, but I've arrived somehow at an edge on four different razors, using the same stone and method that rivals, equals the results you can get from a Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. That's no mean feat! I'm not sure I want to find out any thing that might lead me to tinker with it....lol
So, at the risk of admitting a degree of luck, I'll look at it under my scopes, but I have to say I'm not going to touch the four razors I mentioned, it's a case for me of look but don't touch. Thanks, Bob.
The old Sheppard on a lovely two sided kiita Iromono. The side with the blue edge gets it scary sharp and super smooth on the iromono.
Attachment 275615
Attachment 275614
Understood Bob, magnification is another tool that should help reduce variables not increase them. Using 200X mag makes it difficult to move the entire edge (both sides) under the scope, which is why I said 100X. When I started honing razors I did not use magnification and had a difficult time getting consistent results.
It was only after I forced myself to start using the scope at each stage of the progression did I learn what was occuring between steel and stone. With the added time involved in observing each stage of the process, I am not surprised most would abandon this appraoch. Youv'e done good, luck has nothing to do with it. The trick is to find out why and repeat it sir.
MIke
Re-finished a Le Jaguar last night on a bench size mizu asagi. The stone sold ultra cheap because it had visible flaking from layer cracks in two corners. It's not a safe buy, you can lose more than you get with these. But I offered what I would for nagura stock and got it.
It was 36mm thick, now it is 31mm thick and except for a tiny spiderweb surface crack near one end, I have a clear 'deck'. I could get the spiderweb crack out but it just doesn't make sense to lap the stone down for something that's not a problem. It's hard and fine a nice light blue color also. I gave the fence-post grey stand a scrubbing and a light sanding, some satin spray laquer followed by some 0000 steel wool and wax, and it has a lovely old tool patina to it.
The razor shaved like a dream.
Cheers, Steve