Thread: new razor will not hone

Strange the OP has been on the site earlier today but has not responded today to any of the advice.

Bob

guci31,

Sometimes, well almost always, the old saying "a picture is worth a thousand words" is true. Here's a video by gssixgun helping a new honer. It's a picture of what almost, well most likely all of us, have to learn to become proficient honers.

Edit: I'd definitely take (gssixgun) Glen's offer, but learn from this video to maintain the razor afterwards.



Regards,

Howard

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vxrs5kFkmJg

ouch! Some serious hone wear on that razor. I've been straight razor shaving and honing for just over a year. I never sent out a single razor to be professionally honed. Purchased a 1k king, and a used 4/8 Norton as my finisher. However, I watched countless hours of youtube videos, and refer to this site daily for guidance.

All razor I purchase are old vintage blades with little wear, or only some light restoration needed. If I saw this razor at an Antique shop or the 'Bay, I'd pass on it - looks wrecked. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU TAKE UP GSSIXGUN ON HIS OFFER! Holy crap that is generous!

After one year of honing close to two dozen razors, I'm now able to get very close comfortable shaves off my Norton combo. So with PATIENCE AND PRACTICE, you'll get there. Just take your time. Remember, you can always remove steel, but never add it back on. This is a learning experience for everyone who wants to hone their own razors. Always use tape as a newbie on the spine of your razors to eliminate excessive hone wear. Buy some cheap razors as mentioned previously. Get a red sharpie to mark your bevel and let the razor tell you what's going on. MAKE SURE YOUR STONE IS FLAT TOO! Get a diamond plate - there are options out there that are much less expensive than a DMT.

So from one newbie to another, don't let this experience get your down. Your razor might be trashed, or it might not. If anyone can get it to shave, it would be Glen. I'm here to help you in anyway I can. I live in Pittsburgh, so if you're close don't hesitate to reach out.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Kees

Seems only part of the problem as the heel end of the spine has more honewear than the toe end.

No, not really.

Because he could not get the heel to come together he added more pressure at the heel and caused more spine wear over the heel, and ground down the stabilizer eventually.

When he was on the tang, the heel edge was nowhere near the stone. If he had honed off the stabilizer, the edge would have come together.

It is a common problem with new honers, just that he kept going, and adding more pressures.

@Euclid: I don't think I understand your line of thought.
If the stabilizer is in the way and lifts the heel end of the razor off the hone and you are applying pressure on the razor to get the heel to get in touch with the hone most of the pressure will be applied to the toe end of the blade and the stabilizer. Which will eventually cause most honewear on toe end and on the stabilizer. Not on the heel end of the blade, or only on the heel end of the spine. But if you look well at OP's pictures there's also a lot of honewear on the heel end of the cutting edge. I honestly can't see how that is caused by a stabilizer that is in the way.

I think it's safe to say that he applied too much pressure everywhere, as he mentioned that the edge doesn't cut hair anywhere. How he got there is anyone's guess, since he spent hours at it, he could have done it several ways. In summation I think he's just using so much pressure everywhere that the blade is flexing away and he's grinding away steel way behind the apex - as evidenced by the very wide bevels. This means he never gets near the apex and doesn't even then hit it regularly either since his pressure is probably all over the place.

all I can say is Wow
Great offer Glen & good luck

That hone wear is extreme. Yet observe the coloring of the hone wear. slight patina.
When I dont tape and rock to stone I get shiny steel in my eyes .
How about you? If then what. Something deeper lurks.
If spine was prior flattened, 2 plus layers of tape and many laps.
Documentable by shiny small bevel and mutiple tape changes as 100 plus laps would be nessesary.
Bigger problem flat of the spine uneven bilaterally you will notice. Edge non uniform.
Many things going on with this one.
Many strokes , foundation first, let the shiny steel, and vary pressure and stroke to ensure evenness.
Lastly joint the edges at 1K and that should even many things up.

Ok in all fairness to the OP
I did this and destroyed this razor.
Oh it was a 6/8ths, now a 5/8ths....
The community can help you get a shaveable edge.

I don't think I understand your line of thought.

If the stabilizer is in the way and lifts the heel end of the razor off the hone and you are applying pressure on the razor to get the heel to get in touch with the hone most of the pressure will be applied to the toe end of the blade and the stabilizer.

The razor, was riding on the Stabilizer and the Spine. keeping the heel edge off the stone. Typically, pressure is added where the problem is suspected.

Which will eventually cause most hone wear on toe end and on the stabilizer. Not on the heel end of the blade, or only on the heel end of the spine.

Adding more pressure at the heel, straight down pressure, will grind the spine over the heel and the stabilizer, as was done.


But if you look well at OP's pictures there's also a lot of hone wear on the heel end of the cutting edge.

On one side, he did finally grind the stabilizer down, to where the bevel reaches the edge. The other side is not fully reaching the edge. Notice how much of the spine and tang is ground off at the stabilizer, almost smooth from spine to heel edge. Now the razor is making contact at 3 points, spine, stabilizer and bevel.

I honestly can't see how that is caused by a stabilizer that is in the way.

What you must remember is, about a 1/8 inch of width has been ground off the razor, (the bevel is almost touching the bottom of the etch) and in doing so completely removed the original heel corner. The corner of the heel is now well behind the edge of the stabilizer.

The grinding completely altered the geometry of the razor, as the spine was ground thinner, the back of the bevel was ground, lifting the edge off the stone, (digging the hole that Glen talked about, chasing the edge, post 13). The spine was being ground faster, or at the same rate as the bevel, with the edge off the stone. Notice the double bevel.

Here is what the razor would have looked like originally. Notice that the corner of the edge is about a 1/8 inch in front of the beginning of the stabilizer. Photo 3 of the OP’s razor, shows the corner is at about middle of the stabilizer, so it has moved almost ¼ inch and the blade a lot narrower.

On OP’s, photo 4 you can see the corner better, (Notice the double bevel on this side also), the current bevel may not even be asymmetrical.

A lot was going on, compounding the problem with each stroke. A vicious circle, started by honing on the stabilizer and trying to correct it with more pressure.

For new honers a simple solution is to ink the bevel and the stabilizer, to see if you are honing to the edge and ensure that you are not honing on the stabilizer.