Thread: Ready to throw a hone...

Originally Posted by Phrank

I think I may contribute to this thread when my noobie azzz tries to hone up that rock hard steel on that Iwasaki razor....seems like really, really hard steel. Kind of shocked how heavy that razor is for a 6/8.

The little rust came off the pivot pin area easy peasy with a Feather SE blade, and it's ready to go after some light sanding tonight...anyone recommend Valium prior to honing?

It's no more difficult than any well made razor with a good bevel & you can be sure Iwasaki geometry is always good unless someone has badly honed it prior.
It may however take a bit longer than some razors

Originally Posted by Phrank

I think I may contribute to this thread when my noobie azzz tries to hone up that rock hard steel on that Iwasaki razor....seems like really, really hard steel. Kind of shocked how heavy that razor is for a 6/8.

The little rust came off the pivot pin area easy peasy with a Feather SE blade, and it's ready to go after some light sanding tonight...anyone recommend Valium prior to honing?

Valium, Yes. AMBIEN?!?! You do NOT want to see the sort of bevels you wake up to when honing on Ambien!

You can throw a ball.
You can throw a fit.
You can even throw a bone…. But never, ever throw a hone!

Mike

Originally Posted by Magpie

Ready to throw a hone....

And what, pray tell, makes YOU guys want to scream in frustration? Warps? Twists? Shouts? Tell me your woes!

I just got a coticule from Ardennes. That thing is driving me up a wall. I picked out a Torrey straight as the test subject. Started out by giving it a little Norton 4k/8K love, then on to the coticule - pure water then shave lather. Shave was awful, but in the coticule's defense the blade had burrs that hadn't been knocked away on the 4/8 or strop.

So I dulled the edge on the side of a soft Arkie to abrade away the burrs and get a good even edge. Slurried up the coticule, set the bevel on it, and diluted up to pure water. Slapped a little shave lather on it to slick things up and finished the razor. Shave was, again, terrible. Fair enough, you can't win them all right? Take the Mulligen and move along...

Set the blade aside, give it a few days (need beard hair to shave), and try again. Examined blade under a loupe. Nothing really stands out. No burrs, chips, pits, deep/uneven stria. Pulled out my Dovo which was honed on a barber's hone last for comparison - known good shaver, buttery smooth. Dovo (apparently) has chips that can be seen under a 30x loupe...so much for using that as a comparison blade. Shaves OK, but looks like hell. Coticule looks OK, but shaves like hell...

Whatever. Mulling that over isn't getting anywhere. Slurried up coticule. 100 very light passes on slurry to ensure bevel is meeting. Looks good under the loupe. Begin diluting. Polishing sequence going OK, clean stone go to pure water. Set blade and stone aside, work on another blade with Arkanstones. Once blade B is ready for final finishing as well, break out shave soap. 60 laps on shave lather for the coticule, 120 for the Arkie.

Torrey straight honed on the coticule - shave was terrible. Tugged and pulled. Stropped and checked under a loupe, nothing out of whack. Makes 0 sense.

Next test - swap the Torrey (it's old and very hone worn, probably 4/8 or less) with a more gently used 5/8 vintage. Hones both blades on Norton 4K/8K. See if Torrey can shave off the Norton 8K. Hone the 5/8 up to 8K, make sure it can shave. Then do water/lather on the coticule. If it degrades a shaving 8K edge and makes it tug, I may just throw a hone...

Seems as if you went 4/8 Norton and then to the coticule, you may have gone backwards?
Depending on the coticule/honing and all?

Norton 4/8. The poor man's coticule!

That's what I'm afraid of. Every thing I've read about them indicates that it should be an improvement. At least in comfort, not a downgrade all around. I'm hoping to find that the Torrey just doesn't shave worth a dang.

Well. The coticule is an endeavor. Each one to it's own. An adventure.
The Norton 4/8? Super-predicable, IMO.
Silly me, I shall have to wait 'til retirement to do naturals.

Should be fun!

Originally Posted by Magpie

And what, pray tell, makes YOU guys want to scream in frustration? Warps? Twists? Shouts? Tell me your woes!

Warped Sheffield razors with a heavy grind. Which is why I don't like Sheffield blades all that much, as many seem to suffer from this ailment.

Originally Posted by Marshal

I just got a coticule from Ardennes. That thing is driving me up a wall. I picked out a Torrey straight as the test subject. Started out by giving it a little Norton 4k/8K love, then on to the coticule - pure water then shave lather. Shave was awful, but in the coticule's defense the blade had burrs that hadn't been knocked away on the 4/8 or strop.

So I dulled the edge on the side of a soft Arkie to abrade away the burrs and get a good even edge. Slurried up the coticule, set the bevel on it, and diluted up to pure water. Slapped a little shave lather on it to slick things up and finished the razor. Shave was, again, terrible. Fair enough, you can't win them all right? Take the Mulligen and move along...

Set the blade aside, give it a few days (need beard hair to shave), and try again. Examined blade under a loupe. Nothing really stands out. No burrs, chips, pits, deep/uneven stria. Pulled out my Dovo which was honed on a barber's hone last for comparison - known good shaver, buttery smooth. Dovo (apparently) has chips that can be seen under a 30x loupe...so much for using that as a comparison blade. Shaves OK, but looks like hell. Coticule looks OK, but shaves like hell...

Whatever. Mulling that over isn't getting anywhere. Slurried up coticule. 100 very light passes on slurry to ensure bevel is meeting. Looks good under the loupe. Begin diluting. Polishing sequence going OK, clean stone go to pure water. Set blade and stone aside, work on another blade with Arkanstones. Once blade B is ready for final finishing as well, break out shave soap. 60 laps on shave lather for the coticule, 120 for the Arkie.

Torrey straight honed on the coticule - shave was terrible. Tugged and pulled. Stropped and checked under a loupe, nothing out of whack. Makes 0 sense.

Next test - swap the Torrey (it's old and very hone worn, probably 4/8 or less) with a more gently used 5/8 vintage. Hones both blades on Norton 4K/8K. See if Torrey can shave off the Norton 8K. Hone the 5/8 up to 8K, make sure it can shave. Then do water/lather on the coticule. If it degrades a shaving 8K edge and makes it tug, I may just throw a hone...

The slurry may be the problem. Many coticules are like CH12Ks in that they are polishers and need lots and lots of water-only strokes. I used mine successfully for years before I ever heard of slurry. It was like a hard Ark to me, just needed lots of strokes.

Originally Posted by kelbro

The slurry may be the problem. Many coticules are like CH12Ks in that they are polishers and need lots and lots of water-only strokes. I used mine successfully for years before I ever heard of slurry. It was like a hard Ark to me, just needed lots of strokes.

Very true words I used to be one who would recommend the methods of "dilucot" and "unicot" to those wanting to use coticules. Now I advise never to use slurry as all the slurry does is damage and round The edge.

It is funny how your thinking can flip 180 in the matter of mere years. At the time when I started honing Bart's word was the gospel. Make a milky slurry set the bevel dilute. Well I got shaving edge, there was no doubt about that and they were good. I know guys like Gary Haywood and others are great with this method. I can say that I've never gotten a better edge than with a slurry free technique with water only. Just plain and simple you didn't have to undo the damage caused by slurry use in the first place. Some may disagree and that's fine. It's in my humble opinion anyways. I do love my coticules but now I use them for what they are. Finishing hones.

Then we get the issue on the worthiness of some coticules.

What drives me nuts? Coticules that aren't useful for squat. Ones that don't finish well and have 0 cutting power and are beyond soft. I've had my fair share of lemons and have even returned stones back to Belgium before. All coticules can finish? Sure if you like a subpar finish a 6k king can "finish" too or a 4K norton but how good is that finish? Then we get those who say every coticule can finish a razor... what do you tell someone with that mind set?

Can you finish on every jnat mined? No they have certain jnats used for finishing a razor. Why would a coticule would be any different? It's like bobbin for apples when you get a great one never let it go! Because the great ones aren't as common as made believe.

Try honing to 8k and then water only strokes. If the edge isn't improved no amount of half laps on "misty slurry" will save you.