Thread: Coticule chronicles

Originally Posted by sdsquarepoint

Howard has posted several times in the past stating that Dovo uses Coticules just over 1 inch wide. Ironically the video footage of Dovo workings shows a wider one. Either way there must be something about the narrow rocks as that is so frequently found on the European and especially Belgian hones.
Mike B

For the record, Martin claims TI uses exclusively Coticules to finish. He has it on the DVD, I think. It was something like a 2x8 or 2x9 but I may be wrong...

However - I was pretty sure I read that one of the companies uses Eschers. Are you positive that Dovo doesn't use Eschers?

Cheers
Ivo

Dovo might still use the escher. The Arthur Boone literature linked on the Knifecenter's site do mention the Escher after they use the Belgian. The video footage just does not cover it.

Originally Posted by sdsquarepoint

Dovo might still use the escher. The Arthur Boone literature linked on the Knifecenter's site do mention the Escher after they use the Belgian. The video footage just does not cover it.

Thanks Mike - maybe I read it there then. Hard to keep track what I got where

Cheers
Ivo

Both companies have their processes showcased by individuals on the

web.http://www.kabeleins.de/doku_reporta...artikel/01500/

Cant find the link to the TI one.
MikeB

Wow, great post! I'm excited that Ross Cutlery is in my own backyard. All though I don't go to downtown LA much, I might have to make a special trip.

I have been very lucky to have a personal ( one on one) lesson with David (Heavyduty), who has helped a lot with my honing , actually he has taught me to hone.
First i watched a million times Lynns dvd, wich i would refer to as "the bible", covers the basics and makes you understand what the principles of what we are doing are.
(thanks lynn, very ,much) but, still i wasn't able to get a razor shave ready, i didn't really know what to look for , here is why the lesson with David helped greatly, he taught me that is more artistic and less mathematic, is more about feel, he showed me the moves, what sound the blade should make and how it should feel, he also flatened my brand new stones (wich made a huge difference.) I can not really explain because i don't have the language skills , sorry about that, but the details i will leave them for David to explain.
After Davids session i was able to maintain a razor previously honed by Lynn or other honeimasters, by just doing a few (10 or 15) smooth strokes on the coitucle every week or so.
I realized it is all it takes, once a razor is "super sharp" you can keep it like that just with the coticule...FOREVER. And it takes 1 minute, wich for me is depressing ...because i am looking forward to hone and after a couple minutes...there is nothing left to hone...you can't improve the edge...this is one of the reasons that now i have 9 razors.

Any way...after talking and learning more through this website and talking with david in the phone, i went down with david to this place called Ross Cutlery in down town Los Angeles, its a shop that is known as to be the most complete cutlery store in the west of the United States...it is owned and operated by two brothers Allan and Richard, they carry evrything knife related, fro m10 dollar automatic knifes to $3.000 dollar damasus 5 piece cooking knife set...
I loved going there with David because i could feel that the owner was impresed and really respected davids lenguage and knowledge about the world of honing, he showed us how he hones ( wich i believe is the product of 40+ years of honing).
AND IT BLEW MY MIND!!!!!
I thought he was going to be pulling out a crew of germans?belgians inmigrants carrying hones,strops , microscopes etc....but he didn't he came and pulled out the thinest hone i have ever seen, long too, it was homeglued to a piece of wood.
Sorry, i think David allready went over this.
Anyway what surprised me was his method...there was no pyramides,no counting..it was how can i describe it...very artistic, almost careless...all about feel, he started to go left -right-left -right at an enourmous speed, and every 30 -40 strokes check the sharpness, after a few minutes he was done...
Let me tell you, this thing was sharp.
He confirmed there what David had showed me before...this being and art ...a feeling.
I must admit that i like David aproach..is in the midle between Lynns and Allans , it is the mix of both worlds, this resulting in very good edges.
I have been shaving lately with one of davids razors and it is "the sharpest" i have ever tried, David...good luck getting that one back...
After asimilating all this learning between Lynns dvd, Davids lessons and Ross cutlery show... i was ready to do own on my own.
So i got this wipenicas in the mail form poland ...yeah those ones.
Got the norton, and started playing with it, first of all it was completely dull..woudlnt even shave my arm hairs going rambo on them...
I did like 15 on the 4k side, 20 on the 8k, 10 on the 4k, 20 on the 8k, than i did Lynns pyramid....then i went to the coticule ,holding it in my hand with out being afraid to mess the edge i let it flow and got at it, i think i did 60 strokes...i realized that by being more careless ( that doesnt mean not taking care of proper form) the blade actually was doing a better contact on the stone, and to my surprise i was able to get a very...very ...good shave with it.
Better than the dovos professionally honed, ...not as good as davids razor though(wich happens to be a wapi as well) i felt very...very proud, a highlight in my life...fromm scratch...by myself....
I know know the sky is the limit...
Anyway, i got all carried away...to wrap up...my thoughts are...

Anybody can hone....Anybody can achieve a super sharp edge (yes..the kind you always dreamed) and you only need a coticule.
A great shortcut is a lesson with a honeimaster, if you have one living near you...take advantage..will make everything soooo much easier, i cant explain enough.....again is about the feeling....

So thank you David for all your patiente and expertise...and to this site and all of you who are so generous sharing and nourising my love for this art.
Be well gents.
And get your hands in this yellow coticules.!!!!!!
P.S:Excuse all the grammar errors, mispells etc...i have a wife and two kids...i lost my patience long time ago...i just can't....

Originally Posted by sergiobruna

I have been very lucky to have a personal ( one on one) lesson with David (Heavyduty), who has helped a lot with my honing , actually he has taught me to hone.....

Great post!

Jordan

Thanks for all the great info, guys. The Ross Cutlery field trip sounds like it was a real treat. Maybe one day I'll make it out there....

It was interesting to hear that David uses a diamond hone. I guess I won't worry too much about using my DMT on occasion...

Just for an experiment, today I shaved with an edge that I finished on my coticule with a really light slurry. So light I could barely tell I had used a slurry stone. Since I've had such nice results with the Belgian blue, I thought maybe the slurry edge was worth trying again.

No go. The razor shaved OK but not as nicely as it does off the blue alone or off the coticule with no slurry. I'm pretty convinced now that the slurry on the yellow leaves a duller edge than you get coming off the blue. So when I use the coticule I'll definitely be sticking with plain water.

I want to try using the edge produced by the blue with slurry. So far I've finished these razors on the blue without slurry. (Start the chant: "How dull can you go? How dull can you go?)

Anybody else try a blue-finished edge?

Josh

Originally Posted by JoshEarl

Thanks for all the great info, guys. The Ross Cutlery field trip sounds like it was a real treat. Maybe one day I'll make it out there....

It was interesting to hear that David uses a diamond hone. I guess I won't worry too much about using my DMT on occasion...

Josh

Josh,
I am David. The "honemeister" at Ross Cutlery is Allen (and his brother Richard), and yes he said that he uses a few diamond hones on razors that need a lot of work. FWIW I use a DMT 1200 grit on razors that need a lot of work too. It just sounded like you thought that the person at Ross Cutlery was named David, but I could be wrong.

If you look at Tim Zowada's photos you will see the dry honed razor is shinier on the edge than the slurry honed razor. Shinier doesn't mean it cuts better and everyone who has tried both ways and has emailed or phoned me about it says that the slurry method gets them the best shave.

The belgians recommend slurry honing. I do have vintage belgians in my collection that say they can be used dry and I think they would probably hone faster dry. Try following the dry honing with a slurry honing and I think you'll get a razor edge faster and will have a great shave.