Thread: Honemeister at work

I just finished...thank you...if I read them again i'm gonna be sick.

After I saw your second reply I had no idea why you behaved like that so I went back and checked the post from the begining.
I saw that the person who was answering was not the person I was talking to...so I let you know we were arguing useless.

I have tested the method...a few years ago...
I got a good shave. It works...but how well it works depends on your standing point.
From where I stand that is the way I see it...sadly it works but it has so many disadvantages and the result is a few steps back from what I am used to.
So...you see i cant use it on my razors...I would be wasting metal.

My moto is to remove the minimum amount of metal and get the maximum out of the edge...you enjoy the razor longer that way and ... maybe someone else after you are no more gets to enjoy it.

Also with my setup I can achieve good edges.
I never had a client complain and I have done 1k+razors.

Now, please, relax...no one is doing anything to the mothod...if it makes you happy...use it... it works for some....just be civilised about it.

I never doubted your abilities or how comfortable and repeatable your methods were. A lot of people get in a reliable routine and never deviate save the finish stone. That's awesome but that muscle memory also makes it harder to step outside of it. Especially on such a seemingly rudimentary approach.



I usually don't use the method I just don't enjoy seeing a method constantly bashed before a person learns it's nuances.
In example I've been honing on coticule for 3 years now. It's not an easy method to master. Not unlike this method. I've read many posts of people stating coticule edges are this, that and the rest of it. I can't hone on my coticule. My coticule sucks...

Well if that certain method was mastered by the user things would be different.


This method only uses the 1k to set the bevel not unlike every other method. It also uses minimal strokes after that. This is not a touch up.. A full honing after an edge is completely flattened by running it edge down on a 1k king.

That was a useless argument but we've got better understanding now and there is more information available for those just tuning in to this never ending saga of Murray Carter's method.

Sent from my LG-K210 using Tapatalk

Oh...I had my fun experimenting with stones...techniques and steel...
I had the priviledge of testing many razors and stones.
Last 6-7years have been kind to me...honing and doing restores for other ppl has its advantages...you get to try the razors for free...and you get to invest it in buying what you like...like more stones and razors.
I have satisfied all my curiosity about this matter on natural and sinthetic stones...I only keep a few stones [email protected] ones I considered fited best my needs and skill.
You will reach certain maturity as an user when you will not have to buy to test...but buy to enjoy because you will get to know exactly what to expect from the item you bought.

Same is with technique...you need to try them all and you stop once you find what works best for you...
Sadest thing is when you cant stop at all...some ppl eagerly awayt for the 640.000 grit particle to be split in 2 ..and some can never rest while there is a better option.

But hell what do I k ow. Like I said...I'm just a nobody.
If you wa t to see some of my stones and past resto work you're welcomed to add me on fb.

If I may opine as a novice shaver and honer, what strikes me most about this video and the discussion its generated is that in this gentleman's preamble he describes his method of honing as "orthodox". Regardless of this method's potential merits and pitfalls, the conversation and debate sparked in regards to it would belay this description.

Learning how to personally hone the razors I use daily (such as I'm able so far) I have found a thoroughly subjective experience. I wouldn't be able to shave with a straight razor or hone at all if it weren't for the information learnt from this forum, its honemeisters and other online sources. I started by buying truly shave-ready razors whose edges I've continued to maintain and shave with. Then, when I learnt to hone, I found few experiences more enriching (and challenging) than combining techniques learnt in many different places to hone a razor from dull edge to my personal satisfaction. I was so excited to hone a razor myself to a sharpness vaguely comparable to the shave-ready razors I acquired early on and was ecstatic when I was able to produce an edge that I found sharp and more comfortable than those I'd received from professionals. Now, if I was to send the razors I've honed to those professionals who honed my first razors, they may be appalled by the edges I'd produced, but they worked for me.

If I'm not open to new and different techniques, I'll not have much room to improve my honing. We shouldn't poo-poo something just because it's different. It can be misleading, however, to presuppose your favourite technique as 'orthodox' and widely applicable.

Originally Posted by DoctorNick

If I may opine as a novice shaver and honer, what strikes me most about this video and the discussion its generated is that in this gentleman's preamble he describes his method of honing as "orthodox". Regardless of this method's potential merits and pitfalls, the conversation and debate sparked in regards to it would belay this description.

Learning how to personally hone the razors I use daily (such as I'm able so far) I have found a thoroughly subjective experience. I wouldn't be able to shave with a straight razor or hone at all if it weren't for the information learnt from this forum, its honemeisters and other online sources. I started by buying truly shave-ready razors whose edges I've continued to maintain and shave with. Then, when I learnt to hone, I found few experiences more enriching (and challenging) than combining techniques learnt in many different places to hone a razor from dull edge to my personal satisfaction. I was so excited to hone a razor myself to a sharpness vaguely comparable to the shave-ready razors I acquired early on and was ecstatic when I was able to produce an edge that I found sharp and more comfortable than those I'd received from professionals. Now, if I was to send the razors I've honed to those professionals who honed my first razors, they may be appalled by the edges I'd produced, but they worked for me.

If I'm not open to new and different techniques, I'll not have much room to improve my honing. We shouldn't poo-poo something just because it's different. It can be misleading, however, to presuppose your favourite technique as 'orthodox' and widely applicable.

Glad it worked out for you!
Honing is a journey...we all are at diffrent points on that journey...when your options are opened...you are curious of how far you can reach....when you have exausted your options...the only thing to do is look back, enjoy and help others.
For a example....in my coticule period...I have bought owned and tested over 50-60 coticules. In a few years. I bought-tested-kept the best and sold the rest and repeated it until I could no longer find stones better then the ones I had......that's more cotis tested then some users will se in a lifetime.
Did I learn something?...yes...I know how to pick/buy and use a coticule enough to corectly teach oters.
Will I buy another?...certenly not out of curiosity....but if I see something special then sure...

Same principle applyes to technique...when you are growing...experiment...try...variate techniques...find out what fits your skills and style best....and think of ways to improve it....until you can no longer improve....and either settle wit what you got or go to the next level...
...sadly in honing there seems to always be a next level...synthetics...jnats...CBN...Poli diamond...roo and microfiber...some bring more to the game then others though.

About four years ago, I watched all the popular honing videos, including Murray Carter's video, that is talked about here. I was interested to know more and so I emailed Murray, and he took the time to explain his views on honing. I am richer for that knowledge. We are lucky to have SRP as a resource for improving our honing skills, however for civility you need to look elsewhere.....lol

There are certain things that I have played around with in honing that are part of the MC technique. The back and forth or Japanese stroke I use, not like he does them, but I do use them. Initially I used them only on low grit hones as I had believed them to be grinding strokes. I am terrible with names so I won't try to say who had used it as a technique, but it was pointed out to me that a well know Japanese blade master used the same general style of stroke as a finishing stroke. So I tried it on my high grit hones too. Japnanese strokes are effective for sure. I'm not sure why the board, but many people do straighten an edge, or lightly kill it, or joint it on a thumb nail as part of their regular honing routine. MC video makes the process look pretty haywire and I am going to say it is poor representation of probable material.

First off: No, I don't create burrs while honing and yes, I use half-strokes (back-and-forth strokes) pretty much exclusively up until finishing an edge, but that is quite inconsequential to the discussion.

I remember the original thread after the Murray Carter video had just surfaced. I was extremely skeptical of his method, but changed my stance because it clearly worked for him (and for others, as became apparent later on).

Just because a method seems unconventional is no reason to unambiguously bash it, which happened in that thread (referred to by SolitarySoldier).

It was a shocking case of "Gentlemanly behaviour, YMMV, but not really."

Best regards,

Pieter

Before writing the opening post I did a forum search but did not find JimR's post so that is why I brought this video up.
The 2 things that struck me watching the video were the amount of pressure he seems to apply and that he puts more effort into honing the toe end of the blade than the heel end. If you use his methods on the same razor over and over again you will end up with a razor with a honed down toe. Like many blades we see on ebay.

Being a well respected bladesmith does not make you a good razor honer. Newbies who want to try their hand at honing should realize this when watching his video.

It is not my intention to bash anyone. But this is what we do here all the time: commenting on the input of others with the aim of improving one another's technique. Using a technique that gets you a shave-ready razor does prove your technique is right. If you manage to get safely from A to B in an urban area driving 150mph only proves you are a skilled driver. But doning so all the time is wrong because it puts you at a much higher risk of having a serious accident.

IMHO his video should carry a "DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME" warning.

Many of the abused western razors wit an overhone toe come out of japan.
AFIK...the high pressure back and forth technique was used by bladesmiths for metal removal while forming the blade...they had much metal to remove...

On the other hand a razor with good geometry needs minimum amount of metal removal...

So taking that technique to a razor is like taking a percution power dril to work...but you're a dentist.

So that's why I belive there is a better way of doing things.
Bevelset once with no tape and aid of marker to adjust the stroke and stopp when you hit the apex.
Remove the minimum amount of metal in the process.
Test the edge on arm hair and under magnification.

90%there

The rest is progressing to a finisher...some add tape after the bevelset...some dont.
Stropp...oil...hht...shave test.

All you need to know right there....the principles. You can add or improve on these but I belive that is the essence of properly honing a razor.

No need to create a burr just to rip it out...
No need to brutalize the poor blade...
No need to cutt of your belt for stropping...
Or read the newspaper.
Or drag your fingers along the edge...damn isometimes have 10-20blades in for hining I cant imagine putting my finger tips on all of them after bevel set and finishing the calculated risc of something wrong happening in high...either to the razor or your hand...one should never touch the edge of a finished razor...for multiple reasons....acidity of swet...impurities and abrasive particles stuck to the skin while using the stones....iwasaki promoted washing of hands and razor before changing grit...

But I guess shaving with a spoon getting the spirits restless then dropping the bomb on the spoon is just his style.
I can see how any kind of attention is good for business