Thread: Finding the perfect edge. Yeah right.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

A good edge on a good razor off a 20k or a good natural is hard to pick. Both will shave close with little sensation & much comfort.
Using one stone to compensate for the other sometimes does the trick. I've done it many a time with success. Sometimes 3-5 strokes on a dry hard Jnat can fix an edge that's causing weepers. Lighter shaving pressure can do the same tho
With all stones it's a matter of knowing when to stop but if you're getting good shaves with no dramas I'd leave well enough alone

This. Different edges require different shave technique. I can shave just as comfortably with a brand new Feather Pro or an edge finished on SG20K as with a razor honed on a JNat or Thuri. The only thing is technique has to be altered for the different edges. Angle increase or decrease, tiny bit of pressure against the face or none at all, slight scything or not, etc.

Originally Posted by eKretz

This. Different edges require different shave technique. I can shave just as comfortably with a brand new Feather Pro or an edge finished on SG20K as with a razor honed on a JNat or Thuri. The only thing is technique has to be altered for the different edges. Angle increase or decrease, tiny bit of pressure against the face or none at all, slight scything or not, etc.

Whether I finish on a natural or synthetic I dont need to change shaving angle or technique. Im not sure how it would make a difference.

Originally Posted by Gasman

Can you take this edge (mine being 20k) and go to a natural, very hard stone like an arkie or slate of some kind and get a touch more comfort on the edge without loosing any of that keenness that i like so much? Or is it by doing this, you will loose some of the keen and thats what makes for the comfort?.

Ok. I decided to try a few laps on a Jnat after a known shave ready 20k edge. I looked at the bevel and it didn't have a Kasumi finish that you would expect. I didn't try any more laps because it would just be a Jnat edge. The shave was definitely a few steps back. Without trying a bunch of stones and ways I feel going to a natural after the 20k is pointless as to get the edge where you want it to be would just make the 20k irrelevant.

Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Whether I finish on a natural or synthetic I dont need to change shaving angle or technique. Im not sure how it would make a difference.

With someone fairly new it could make a big difference. Especially if attempting their first ATG pass, anything taller than flat to the face could be unpleasant.

But back to honing & at risk of repeating myself, With all stones it's a matter of knowing when to stop but if you're getting good shaves with no dramas I'd leave well enough alone.

Taking any "optimal", shave ready edge beyond shave ready with any stone, even for a few strokes can degrade the edge.
However as a rally driving mate once said to me, " If you don't run off the road now & then you don't know how fast you can corner"

Originally Posted by onimaru55

" If you don't run off the road now & then you don't know how fast you can corner"

True words.


Also, the more I'm chasing "the edge" the more I come to realize that once you got a fine shaving edge, technique is what truly matters then.

Get the best edge with crap technique and you'll be blaming your edge and chasing hones like no tomorrow.

Less is more, dial in on one razor or two razors (preferably similar ones to take out most variables), one or two finishing stones to your preference (I'm doing the Coti vs BBW thing atm) and perfect the shave by improving/adapting technique (scything ftw!).

All I learnt is that a) I prefer the Coticule edge for daily shaving, way sharp and way smooth, amazing skin feel afterwards and b) I really don't need a WTG pass, it's actually irritating my skin more than anything, ATG on the first pass gives me a smooth shave and I'm left with some good feelin' skin. My technique on the ATG works best for me in every regard.

After you've dialed in on your hones, you can start doing different things on them, if you want, I'm now testing to see if in my hands the edge trailing vs edge leading finishing stroke makes a difference. (Also trying oil, lather, running water, changes in pressure, etc.)

Originally Posted by Gasman

So i know folks are going to say "give it a try", but id like to hear from others who have tried this. I can get a crazy keen edge on my razors now. One that will slip thru whiskers like a hot knife thru butter. When you shave you would think there was nothing happening because you feel no cutting at all. But now im wondering...

Can you take this edge (mine being 20k) and go to a natural, very hard stone like an arkie or slate of some kind and get a touch more comfort on the edge without loosing any of that keenness that i like so much? Or is it by doing this, you will loose some of the keen and thats what makes for the comfort? Just trying to wrap my mind around this before i go screwing up one of my perfect edges.

The answer is yes you can. The edge you are talking about is what i call a crisp edge. I prefer a semi-crisp edge. I hone all of my razors on the green brick (1k), shapton gs 2,4,8, and either shapton 16k or g20. This edge feels too much like a fresh Feather razor. I then take my crisp edge to a lightly slurried Escher, but any quality thuringian will do. I use x strokes until stone is half dry. Strop 100x on leather and shave.

There are many ways to get there. Talk to Sharpton about lead treated strop. I shaved with one of his razors the other day and it was smooth and sharp.

Coticules are another answer...but I have been through over a dozen without any satisfaction.

BTW, my primary method is stepping back in proverbial grit, but it works VERY well!

Finally.... Its been hit on the head.! "The strop"
All the honing in the world doesn't matter, if its not stroped right. The edge doesn't end at the hone, it stops at the strop. IMHO

Which is why I think you don't need anything finer than a 8k stone.

A strop, some chromium oxide is a much cheaper substitute to a 20k stone.

Originally Posted by Badgister

Which is why I think you don't need anything finer than a 8k stone.

A strop, some chromium oxide is a much cheaper substitute to a 20k stone.

Tell me about it.
My progression goes Naniwa 1,5,10 the shaves I get from the 10k are phenomenal. A few licks on some CroOx and im as happy as can be. My Gok doesn't see much action except for some super hard Japanese straights and my naturals come out when I have the time.

Originally Posted by outback

Finally.... Its been hit on the head.! "The strop"
All the honing in the world doesn't matter, if its not stroped right. The edge doesn't end at the hone, it stops at the strop. IMHO

I stopped obsessing over stones a long time ago (though I still love stones), and invested in some strops. I have two pieces of leather and 4 pieces of linen or felt.

If I can polish my knives with super steels on these things (which I can), my straights don’t stand a chance!



I do voodoo on those things! Good voodoo! Sharp voodoo lol!

Edit - hmmm, maybe I should wash them (not the felt) now that I look at them in this pic.