Thread: Finding the perfect edge. Yeah right.

So i know folks are going to say "give it a try", but id like to hear from others who have tried this. I can get a crazy keen edge on my razors now. One that will slip thru whiskers like a hot knife thru butter. When you shave you would think there was nothing happening because you feel no cutting at all. But now im wondering...

Can you take this edge (mine being 20k) and go to a natural, very hard stone like an arkie or slate of some kind and get a touch more comfort on the edge without loosing any of that keenness that i like so much? Or is it by doing this, you will loose some of the keen and thats what makes for the comfort? Just trying to wrap my mind around this before i go screwing up one of my perfect edges.

I am also curious about that as I'm trying to understand about the wire edge..
Somehow this is what I thought about when reading your post.

I'm far from a pro by any means.

In my opinion, you are taking the edge backward. As soon as you mention 20k you are inviting the discussion of overhoning and harsh edges. I'm going to assume that isn't your problem. You've been around this stuff to know it if you were seeing it. But the 20k edge might not be for you. You might prefer a step back. I adore the 20k. Its been my last step in my process for a good few years now and I love it. What I will do is invite you to try that edge with different soaps. I'm very picky about my soaps and I'm convinced that 90% of them are "meh" at best. If I had to use most of the soaps that are often used by others, I'd be looking to step my edge back some too. Assuming yor edge is good and its not been pushed too far, I'd look to your soap before giving up on the keen edge.

I do not have a 20k hone. I did however get a couple of razors from Roger, that he finished on a 20K hone, and they were quite smooth. Here is my thought. Less on the 12K and less on the 20K, and it should take you to where you want to be. Personally too much 12K makes for a prickly shave. I often go with a few laps on either the 10 or 12k and then a natural, mostly because I am avoiding the keen, prickly edge.

Originally Posted by RezDog

I do not have a 20k hone. I did however get a couple of razors from Roger, that he finished on a 20K hone, and they were quite smooth. Here is my thought. Less on the 12K and less on the 20K, and it should take you to where you want to be. Personally too much 12K makes for a prickly shave. I often go with a few laps on either the 10 or 12k and then a natural, mostly because I am avoiding the keen, prickly edge.

I like this. In fact, when I'm finishing MOST razors, I only do maybe 5 laps on the 12k. The 12k can fool you. It works very fast. I do just a few laps on the 12k and then usually sets of ten laps on the 20k until I feel that the edge is ready. The exception is the very hard steels. I also find that polishing the sh1t out of the bevel after say 4k on the 8k with slurry makes for the softest edge. But I still invite you to try the same razor day after day with different soaps.

It’s a good question, though I don’t have the 20K so cannot comment on its keenness level VS that of natural stones. However I can tell you, that edge you speak about is the edge I aim to achieve every time ONLY on natural stones. I gotta say, I’ve been buying and using only Japanese stones in the last few years, so again, no comment on the Arkies, but good Japanese stones will give you that edge. I think perhaps the first thing you should try is to strop the heck out of that blade, and see if that makes it more mellow, compared to the same edge right off the stone and a normal amount of stropping (30-40 is normal, maybe?)

I do not think that soap/lather would necessarily tell you anything solid. I think it actually gets in the way of getting the true feel of the edge against face, but that’s just me. The thing for me is, if I am satisfied with the edge only on soapy water, I know it will deliver a killer shave when used properly, i.e. on lather.

I think if you go from 20k to a natural you need to do very few strokes on the natural to get that smooth feeling. Although I think if you take more than a few you will lose a lot of sharpness.

My edge is by no means harsh as ive was told there issuch a thing as too keen and was sent a razor to try that was too keen. I couldnt believe it was possible but learned i was wrong. I ask this because i have felt some edges off of naturals that felt more comfortable. Almost flet like it couldnt cut you. B7t then they were never as keen as my edge. Much less in sharpness.

I use MDC most the time and love its quality and use other soaps too and know what you are saying with soaps. It can make a difference in the shave end result.

I was thinking that going to a natural might be stepping back as you say.i dont want to go back but to refine the edge.to smoother without loosing the keen. Maybe this is the honing stage folks get too and find that going back just a touch is what makes it best for them.

I guess you could say im enterested in combining the best of two worlds. Probably getting ahead of myself but i just love to learn more.

I just discovered (or am discovering) the edge off of a green Escher. Thought the 12k Naniwa was a improvement off of the 8k but for me the Escher took it up at least the same amount from the 12k only with a velvety feeling. Have to admit i haven't got the exact same results off every razor I've used it on but i'm still learning.

I know some guys with go to a thuri after the synthetics. And thats what make them happy. And im willing to try this with all my naturals to see if its what im looking for. But it just sounds like a step back.

I feel (i dont know) that the 20k edge is very fine, thin, if you were to measure it. And what im thinking is to smooth out the microscopic ridges and valleys that are still in there. At least this is what im thinking i want. As from my understanding, this is what gives the more comfortable feel. I could be way off base on this.

Less 12k is not a bad idea and i will give it a try first before picking up the naturals.