Thread: simple honing under the stereo scope

I suppose I may say that knife techniques work great on knives. Notsomuch razors.
Razors have to be bad sharp and smooth. To shave hairs.

Knives need to cut. Not smooth is an attribute at times with knives.


Different animals altogether

Originally Posted by caltoncutlery

see and I still am not seeing all that much difference in sharpening vs honing. sure a pocket knife is different from a razor, but a chopper is different from a paring knife. and a paring knife is different from a pair of scissors, and scissors are different from a lawnmower blade, and then throw in axes and chainsaws, chisels, handsaws, fishhooks, drill bits, lathe bits, reamers, ect…..

it is all a chunk of steel that you rub on a rock {or I guess we can throw in files and grinders so they don't feel left out} in such a manner to create a cutting edge that is best suited for its intended purpose and generally involves abrading 2 sides of the steel until they meet at a specified angle, and desired finish.

There is not much difference between sharpening and honing so you can use them and other words interchangeably. Yup all that you mention have sharp edges but they do in some cases perform a specialized task and therefore require different techniques to get an edge suitable to the task they were specifically designed to do. A shave ready straight razor's edge is a fairly delicate edge suitable for shaving while a pocket knife's edge is not as delicate but is generally used for things not shaving related. To put an edge as delicate as that of a straight razor on a pocket knife, I would think, would be counter productive by greatly reducing the useful life of that edge. So really when you get to the nitty gritty it is not as simple as you would on the surface think but only in really broad general terms.

Bob

What he said!

I have no intention of touching my Hollywood Face with any of those other things that were "Sharpened"

Plus SR shaving is WAY to labor intensive to use anything but the absolute best edge possible.. "Good enough" just isn't worth all the time you have to invest in it


Hone On !!!

I like simple. if you cant make it simple, then you haven't practiced enough.

when it comes right down to it, honing a razor is no more complicated, or difficult, or really that much different than sharpening a handsaw and reseting the teeth, nor sharpening a chefs knife. sure, you use slightly different techniques and sometimes different tools, but you are still abrading two sides of a chunk of steel to a point at which they meet at a desired angle and desired finish. sharpening is sharpening. whether you choose to use the benefits of a burr or not.

on the other hand, my face is not near Hollywood quality, even though my wife conned me into being on tv for the whole forged in fire thingy, but that was shot in new York, so I guess it doesn't count. my face is still more ugly than anything, and much more suited to just playing with razors, and I wouldn't have a problem shaving with a knife or axe or something if I thought it might be fun and I might learn something, the whiskers will be right back in a day or two anyhow, and its not like I could really screw my face up with another scar or two as they would just blend in with the rest :}

So, is that 6k, - 30k Chrome Oxide edge the one you put on your custom razors to show case your work?

As you continue to experiment with other stones, (folks have been using Arks for hundreds of years on razors) you will find out for yourself that there is a lot more to a razor edge than you think.

Your thinking is not new, has been debated many times here and other fora. Many of us came to razors chasing the ultimate sharp knife edge, myself included. The difference is, only the razor must ride on your skin to do the work of cutting the hair. And that’s the rub, it must be sharp enough to cut the hair and smooth enough to not cut or irritate YOUR skin. What works for you may not for everyone else.

Add to that, a vintage razor with all it’s “issues” and it is not as simple as rubbing steel on a rock, if you want the best shave. If you just want to scrape the hair off your face, then it does not matter much, and for a whole lot of folks, (the cartridge razor Git er Done crowd) that is good enough.

That you are going the Ark route, a path many of us have followed and there is much written about it that may help you. But you will eventually come to the conclusion that most of us have, there are faster and more consistent ways to get to a very comfortable shaving edge, than a full Ark progression. As a finisher an Ark edge is unique, and one I enjoy.

You are just in the, this is not so hard, good enough phase. Once your shaves get better, you start chasing the edge, once you get “the edge”, then you start chasing consistency. By that time, you are deep in the hole and you, will be writing a post very similar to this, to the new to straight razor honing, knife guy.

my customs I ship with a 12k naniwa, then 10 laps on a crox strop, then linen, then leather.

that video and this thread was based on taking a beginner that doesn't have a clue about honing a razor and has read a whole bunch of stuff from folks saying that honing is some sort of mysterious black art that only a select few can even begin to think that they could one day dream of doing, after spending their life savings on stones, and putting it in the hands of us normal mortals. using simple combination stone and a burr to let you know when you are done with each step.

the arks are just another toy to play with.

I guess the difference is feeling when the edge is about to wire-edge and actually doing a wire-edge and see it under magnification...
A pyramid honing regimen in the mid range is a great way for beginners to learn this and avoid the overhoning and subsequent issues of wire-edge and burrs.
Not too efficient to go too far, I am thinking..

The 12K Super Stone/ Chrome Oxide edge is tough to beat, bullet proof daily driver edge, but there is more for those willing to look for it. That is the rabbit hole.

There is a big difference between a daily driver and a racecar. You can’t teach a kid to drive in a Formula One car, they are difficult to parallel park.

It is not old guys saying it is hard or magic, it is new guys that say that when they find it is not as easy as freehand sharpening a kitchen knife. The difficult part is identifying why rubbing steel on a rock is not working on a razor. The problem with magnification is understanding what you are seeing, what it means and how to fix it.

Don’t get me wrong, what you are doing is what this forum used to be about. Guys experimenting and posting daily their finding, thoughts and the debate that followed.

For a lot of reasons those days and many of those guys are gone. But if this forum is to revive, that is what is needed. New information for the new guy who will not search the library where the blueprints for the wheels are stored. There is not much new, in honing razors in the last couple hundred years, except better synthetic stones. Naturales and pastes have been used for years and some still work, very well.


Keep swinging.

This is a little OT, but in reference to the "slurry-turd" you mentioned, Tom (which is my new favorite word, by the way-will have to look for ways to work it into conversations), are you referring to the "brown biscuit" that comes with the Chosera 1k for cleaning, cuz that's what it looks like? I have heard some say they use it for slurry on the green brick, and some say no way.

Lately I have been using slurry generated by a well-worn DMT 325 plate for full bevel-setting on the 1k (or sometimes even the white side of the Norton 4k), but I'll have to try the "slurry turd" next time.