Thread: Dovo’s honing method

Originally Posted by thp001

They could improve but maybe they're doing the best they can with the staff they currently have. Maybe a slight frown of a couple thou isn't considered out of spec. Could be multiple variables.

True; by their standards it doesn't seem out of spec, as they do put them out for sale that way.

For a company that makes razors this is unfathomable, I wouldn't wish anyone a frowned razor. Especially newbies that want to buy a quality Solingen product, I feel bad for them.


Otoh, there's one thing that has been truly outstanding throughout all the years and that is their strops, imho.

The true stupidity of the Convex hone is if that dweeb Jarrod and his "Math" actually works to create a Concave bevel (Doubtful)


The very idea that a Concave bevel would be better is laughable at best, considering every razor brand and hone maker has been trying to achieve a Convex bevel for 300 years for a reason..

PS: Somebody please tell that guy to stop using my name to garner hits on his whine soaked Vids I see he added Marty and Steve too now LOL

Yes we noticed that he pulled all that down, and has since switched to "It is easier on wonky blades" sales pitch.. That kinda makes sense since Dovo keeps sending wonky edges out..

And YES when he tags me I reserve the right to bust on his junk science


again Enough Already !!! just learn to hone


Oh pps: It isn't the grinding, it is the honing, once it is corrected they hone just fine plus if the warp was that bad why are you sending them out

I imagine the bevel is concave but to such a small degree it wouldn't really make a difference. Something probably measured in microns. Concave bevels in themselves may have some theoretical advantages in certain cutting tasks. Whether shaving hair is one of them I don't think anyone could say for sure.

As far as my own personal preference goes, I moved more towards the French/Continental tradition of relatively long times between honing and judicious use of the pasted strop because to me the convexing of the edge gives the best shave.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

considering every razor brand and hone maker has been trying to achieve a Convex bevel for 300 years for a reason..

hello

you may wish to read sentence four of paragraph two of page 12 of this (sorry this link but I cannot find otherwise in English, this is the only time I am aware it was written published in English since last 100 years);

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...a-edition-2020

Also you might wish to contact Wacker or others still producing today, and ask them which is correct, your isosceles triangle cutting edge or is the specification to be another form.

While I cannot speak for other location razor production, since ~1885 from Solingen production for hollow ground razors, the goal is always to produce a concave cutting edge, and when grinders say the "cutting edge" we mean the entire bevel form, not the line you show from aside as in America. This was done historically with a small fine wheel powered by foot action, but those are no longer produced and now a hone shaped as wheel portion is used instead. Please come to the Deutsches Klingenmuseum, you will see wonderful pictures from this time period now gone, and they include workstation images ~1900-1910 where you can see wedge grind razors for barbers being honed on flat whetstone while wheel stations for hollow ground finishing (many more) are being used. I do not imagine why you would believe a grinder with access to each would actively choose the flat object instead?

Our industry is working since 2019 on a machinery developed which will be used by all the Solingen productions soon and is a device which can measure with extreme accuracy the cutting edge thickness and edge radius, but without damaging the fragile edge, and with the high resolution required. We are calling this machine for now "the shave-ready machine", in honor of the strong American market. Each new razor will come with an individual certification using objective metrics from the individual test, much like if you purchase a costly moving coil phono cartridge. The test will indicate thickness and radius at several positions upon the cutting edge. I assure you that no "not shave ready" cutting edge can exceed these stringent metrics. Multiple producers in Solingen are adopting this standardization and it will occur soon, perhaps within this year. It will certainly be interesting at that point to read the American forum responses from the experts as yourself.

greetings from Germany, as likely the only participant active in Solingen cutlery posting to your fine forum, we need all of you for German cutlery to continue!

That sounds like a good idea as Wacker has also been putting out questionable products

Originally Posted by razorfranken81

While I cannot speak for other location razor production, since ~1885 from Solingen production for hollow ground razors, the goal is always to produce a concave cutting edge, and when grinders say the "cutting edge" we mean the entire bevel form, not the line you show from aside as in America. This was done historically with a small fine wheel powered by foot action, but those are no longer produced and now a hone shaped as wheel portion is used instead. Please come to the Deutsches Klingenmuseum, you will see wonderful pictures from this time period now gone, and they include workstation images ~1900-1910 where you can see wedge grind razors for barbers being honed on flat whetstone while wheel stations for hollow ground finishing (many more) are being used. I do not imagine why you would believe a grinder with access to each would actively choose the flat object instead?

One can agree with all the theoretical advantages of a concave cutting edge whilst questioning the real world advantages. It is certainly true in a physical sense that an edge that is honed on a convex surface will have a more acute angle, have keener geometry. But this is all taking place over a bevel width of what, fractions of a millimeter? From the apex to the rear edge of the bevel, how much lower is the concavity in the bevel compared to these two points? It can't be more than some amount of microns. Can you really tell that advantage on the face, considering all other variables, beard type, soap type, prep, etc. Maybe with all other variables held constant the razor honed on a convex stone will shave better, easier, by some small degree. I think Dovo's frowning problem is more to do with the honer than the convex stone, or some other part of the manufacture. But I'm also open to the possibility that the convex stone makes honing the razor more difficult to a degree that in a production setting many razors are coming out with a frown. No one can really know the answer.

Originally Posted by razorfranken81

hello

you may wish to read sentence four of paragraph two of page 12 of this (sorry this link but I cannot find otherwise in English, this is the only time I am aware it was written published in English since last 100 years);

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...a-edition-2020

Also you might wish to contact Wacker or others still producing today, and ask them which is correct, your isosceles triangle cutting edge or is the specification to be another form.

While I cannot speak for other location razor production, since ~1885 from Solingen production for hollow ground razors, the goal is always to produce a concave cutting edge, and when grinders say the "cutting edge" we mean the entire bevel form, not the line you show from aside as in America. This was done historically with a small fine wheel powered by foot action, but those are no longer produced and now a hone shaped as wheel portion is used instead. Please come to the Deutsches Klingenmuseum, you will see wonderful pictures from this time period now gone, and they include workstation images ~1900-1910 where you can see wedge grind razors for barbers being honed on flat whetstone while wheel stations for hollow ground finishing (many more) are being used. I do not imagine why you would believe a grinder with access to each would actively choose the flat object instead?

Our industry is working since 2019 on a machinery developed which will be used by all the Solingen productions soon and is a device which can measure with extreme accuracy the cutting edge thickness and edge radius, but without damaging the fragile edge, and with the high resolution required. We are calling this machine for now "the shave-ready machine", in honor of the strong American market. Each new razor will come with an individual certification using objective metrics from the individual test, much like if you purchase a costly moving coil phono cartridge. The test will indicate thickness and radius at several positions upon the cutting edge. I assure you that no "not shave ready" cutting edge can exceed these stringent metrics. Multiple producers in Solingen are adopting this standardization and it will occur soon, perhaps within this year. It will certainly be interesting at that point to read the American forum responses from the experts as yourself.

greetings from Germany, as likely the only participant active in Solingen cutlery posting to your fine forum, we need all of you for German cutlery to continue!

You misunderstand and I already have explained it dozens of times, your statement above in red is just foolish

Let me put it more simply,,, aint none of the Production edge honers should be telling any of us how to hone..

Not one of them puts out and edge most of us can't beat in 15 minutes or less

Ralf Aust might be the best out there from the factory..

Try learning to hone rather than trying to convince us with "Shave Ready" machines

There are at least 100 guys on this very forum that can flat smoke any edge that comes from the factories

Look I am done being nice about it, and that is on Jarrod for dragging me into it Dovo is far from not getting shave ready and is actually frowning the edges I have tons of those pics on my old computer..

I should just be quiet and make the extra money for fixing all those edges, but it is WRONG

Now once again, stop typing about things that you don't understand and go learn to hone


No more Nicey nice


ps: Concave bevels were disproved by the razor makers and hone makers for the last 300 years I don't need to try and say otherwise

You should probably go do some research

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Concave bevels were disproved by the razor makers and hone makers for the last 300 years I don't need to try and say otherwise

You should probably go do some research

Wondering if you could drop some links or whatever to some literature on this. I've never come across anything that specifically addresses the shape of the edge bevel.

I have some pages from a few industrial encyclopedias about razors and hones but it seems like hones are taken for granted as flat but not much is said on the matter.

As far as the general manufacture of edge tools, pretty much everything was convex ground until machine grinding really took over in the early 20th century.

Originally Posted by thp001

Wondering if you could drop some links or whatever to some literature on this. I've never come across anything that specifically addresses the shape of the edge bevel.

I have some pages from a few industrial encyclopedias about razors and hones but it seems like hones are taken for granted as flat but not much is said on the matter.

As far as the general manufacture of edge tools, pretty much everything was convex ground until machine grinding really took over in the early 20th century.

Just search the term here using the advanced search feature you will find plenty..

I am not sure what machine grinding has to do with bevel formation of SR's either..

Also you might find some info about the exact opposite idea vs a Concave hone to form a Convex edge on the older Sheffield near wedges
Not a proponent of that either, but the idea is out there too

ps: I just remembered there are some really good discussions if you search the term "Micro Bevel" too

After all that is exactly what it is doing by creating a Mechanically introduced Convexed bevel using a hone...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am not sure what machine grinding has to do with bevel formation of SR's either..

I was making the point that most edge tools were always traditionally ground towards convexity, which may or may not have informed past peoples ideas about ideal edge bevel geometry on other, more specialized cutting tools, ie, razors.